64 3ta Clutch ?

Andy64

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62
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West Yorkshire
First Name
Andy
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1964 3TA
Hi,

new to this forum & this is my first questions.

I have a 64 3ta & have been having problems with clutch creep. Adjusting didn't help so I bought a new set of friction plates, the plain plates are all in great condition.

The pressure plate is the 4 spring type. I only have a Haynes manual & this only refers to 3 spring types & saying the spring length should be 50mm. Mine all measure 40mm. Is the clutch set up from a different year?

The manual doesn't say how to set the pressure of the springs, I tighten them till there is no clutch slip & no pressure plate wobble.

Is there a better manual than Haynes, better descriptions?

After getting the clutch all back together, the cable snapped, there is always something needing attention, never ending.

TIA,

Andy.
 
Welcome, Andy!

At least you have the advantage of being able to run the engine with the primary cover off (for a short period of time), in order to play with the spring adjustment 'till you get it right.

Make sure your primary chain is not set too tight.

Go through the clutch cable adjustment in the order called out for in the shop manual. The difference in 3 and 4 spring clutch doesn't matter.
 
64 3ta
pressure plate is the 4 spring type.
Is the clutch set up from a different year?
Pre-'63.

How do you know your bike is '64? Are the frame number and engine number the same?

having problems with clutch creep. Adjusting didn't help
What oil are you using in the primary? The 'recommended' low-viscosity oil is likely impossible to find; if not already, use something like ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid), recommended quantity.

After getting the clutch all back together, the cable snapped,
That could be a reason why "Adjusting didn't help"; the cable was stretching before it broke.

how to set the pressure of the springs, I tighten them till there is no clutch slip & no pressure plate wobble.
Another possible reason why the cable broke.

Tighten the spring nuts 'til the ends of the studs are level with the bottoms of the nuts' slots. Stand astride the bike, pull the handlebar clutch lever and operate the kickstart while looking down at the clutch. If the pressure plate appears to 'wobble', operate the kickstart more slowly to ascertain the 'highest' point of the 'wobble' - where the pressure plate is furtherest out. Tighten the nearest spring nut (or two if the '"highest point" is between two) a little at a time - checking as above - until the pressure plate appears to run true when rotated.

If the stud(s) of the spring nut(s) 'adjusted' to remove pressure plate 'wobble' protrude much above the top(s) of the spring nut(s), something else is wrong within the clutch. :(

Having set the spring compression and adjusted the pressure plate, ensure the far end of the clutch operating rod is pressed against the Thrust Plate in the actuating mechanism in the gearbox outer cover - remove the central adjuster stud from the pressure plate and press on the visible end of the clutch operating rod.

When replacing the central adjuster stud in the pressure plate, turn the screwdriver turning the stud between thumb and forefinger only; when the stud hits the end of the rod, you won't be able to turn the stud any further and you can then turn it anti-clockwise about a half-turn and lock it in position with the locknut.

If you turn the screwdriver held in a fist, it isn't possible to detect when the pressure plate starts to lift; if the pressure plate is lifted at all, any subsequent anti-clockwise turning of the adjuster stud is irrelevant, the adjustment won't be correct. :(

Having refitted the primary outer cover, test handlebar clutch lever pull with the chaincase adjuster plug both fitted and not, to discover if the adjuster stud in the pressure plate is hitting the inside of the adjuster plug slot. Unfortunately, Triumph didn't make early chaincases very deep and pattern parts can reduce the very small standard clearance to nothing or negative. :(

I bought a new set of friction plates, the plain plates are all in great condition.
Did you check all plates for flatness (on a sheet of glass)? Did you check the cutaways in the basket for notches, that the driving plates tabs could catch on? Did you file out any found?

only have a Haynes manual & this only refers to 3 spring types
Is there a better manual than Haynes,
Haynes motorcycle manuals are excellent - under the short leg of wobbly furniture, as doorstops, etc. Certainly for the 4-spring clutch, you should have Triumph Instruction Manual No.4 (if other major parts of your bike are '64, you should also either have the Triumph '63-'74 workshop manual or bookmark the link to the free online copy); parts books are available online at Vintage Bike Magazine » Parts Books, under "Tri 500-Unit".

spring length
all measure 40mm.
If the basket is a 3TA one - contains 4 driving plates and 5 driven (plain) plates - the springs should actually be 1-1/2" (38 mm.) long.

Only if the basket is a 500 one - 1/4" deeper than a 3TA one, 5 driving, 6 driven plates - should four springs be 50 mm. (a gnat's under 2") long.

The difference in 3 and 4 spring clutch doesn't matter.
For adjustment only. As shown, there are significant differences between 3- and 4-spring clutch components, in addition to the obvious one.
 
Hi,

firstly, thanks for all the nice comments on my bike. Secondly, thanks for taking the time for repling.

The frame & engine are matching numbers, definately a 64.

I have the correct primary oil as recommended in the manual. Bought 4 litres of the stuff.

The clutch cable snapped due to being old. I have made up a new one using 2mm dia cable. Working great.

The clutch springs are 40mm & correct. Pressure plate is set properly, no wobble.

The clutch drum had very slight notches in it. Filed & now flat again.

I will look into the recomendations on the maual. Haynes is useless.

Due to other commitments I have not had time to ride the bike & do final adjustments.

Feeling positive all will be well again.

Warmest regards,

Andy.
 
The frame & engine are matching numbers, definately a 64.
As the 4-spring clutch is pre-'63, do you know which clutch actuating mechanism is in the gearbox outer cover? Pre-'64 and '64-on are quite different, illustrated and listed in the '61 parts book and the '64 parts book.

In your ownership, has the bike always had a "clutch creep" problem, or is it a recent new problem?
 
Hi,

I've got it all sorted. New friction plates & cable, a little bit of fiddling & it's all working great. I have bought the workshop manual also, that was suggested by one of you guys, thanks.

Have a great weekens.

Andy.
 
Good to hear this TUP
These clutch systems are pretty simple and fairly easy to sort out. You should be good to go for a long time now.

Yes, a workshop manual is essential. When I came back to bikes in 1992 I bought a 1970 Triumph 500.
I hadn't owned a British bike since 1958 and had a lot to learn.
The 500 needed a lot of work so I bought a factory reproduction manual, a Haynes and a Clymer.
They were essentially all the same, but also a bit different in some areas so I learned a lot.
You can never have too much information.
 
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