Bearings

[skinhead]

HI guys need some help got a 1700 storm and my wheel bearings fail after about 500miles(ye i know bonkers)measured all spacers and all spec,the cush drive bearing and needle roller are fine,the only thing that seams odd to me is the the right side bearing doesnt seat against wheel,but just comes up against the spacer leaving a gap to the wheal seating surface iv never seen this before,if i put a commander beearing in its 6.6mm longer than the 14mm storm bearing that would seat up against wheel then cut 6.6mm off spacer,but that meens my wheel isnt right which i dont think it is,the brake side bearing gets destroyed and the inner one is gritty,they still had grease in them which suggests pressure on the inner race.

 

[skinhead]

does the inner bearing surface look normal for a storm as its 20.6mm in length thats for a lt bearing and the 14mm bearing the storm has doesnt seat up against wheel it seats on spacer and flush with outer ege and up against spacer from cush drive

 

[atomsplitter]

It doesn't look right, or sound right. You are using T3800139 (3) and T3800703 (14) bearings with needle roller bearing T3800501 (11) on the cush drive side?

 

[skinhead]

It doesn't look right, or sound right. You are using T3800139 (3) and T3800703 (14) bearings with needle roller bearing T3800501 (11) on the cush drive side?

View attachment 57864

yes all correct for model ,theLT uses a shorter spacer 140.4 as it uses 2, 20 47 20.6 T3800706 ,and the brake side is machined in 6.6mm to take the extra width of bearing,my wheel is machined on the inner side for a 20 47 20.6 to fit but its fitted as standard with a 20 47 14mm bearing that doesnt seat on the wheel but the spacer i want to find out are all all storm wheels machined that way and and the 20 47 14mm tightens on the 153.6 spacer or is my wheel machined for the LT and because the bearing isnt seated to the wheel (like every other bike ive owned,then i can put LT bearing in or machine something to take up the space behind bearing,

 

[atomsplitter]

The spacer for the Storm is T2003518 which shows 20 153.6 for a 2011 Storm.

The wheel for the LT is T2010276 (which is a laced wheel)
The wheel for the Storm (2018,19,20) is T2011029

The ball bearings mounted in the wheel are the same bearing each side with the spacer in between. The first bearing should be driven in, the axle inserted to locate the spacer then the second bearing driven into the hub and should be tight in the hub and against the spacer. If you aren't getting that then the wheel is mismachined or you have the wrong wheel.

You can research parts here: OEM Triumph Thunderbird Genuine Motorcycle Parts | HERMYS TRIUMPH eSTORE

 

[skinhead]

The spacer for the Storm is T2003518 which shows 20 153.6 for a 2011 Storm.

The wheel for the LT is T2010276 (which is a laced wheel)
The wheel for the Storm (2018,19,20) is T2011029

The ball bearings mounted in the wheel are the same bearing each side with the spacer in between. The first bearing should be driven in, the axle inserted to locate the spacer then the second bearing driven into the hub and should be tight in the hub and against the spacer. If you aren't getting that then the wheel is mismachined or you have the wrong wheel.

You can research parts here: OEM Triumph Thunderbird Genuine Motorcycle Parts | HERMYS TRIUMPH eSTORE

thanks for confirming thats how it fits, i have never had a wheel like that before,they alway fit to the spacer and the wheel,I have a new spacer coming,it only measured 152.8,im hoping thats the problem as that would put to much pressure on that bearings inner race as it seats against the wheel,if you shorten the spacer by 6.6mm you can put the LT 20 47 20.6 bearing on the inside and that would seat against the wheel,

 

[atomsplitter]

The inner spacer is what the torque of the axle nut is applied to against the bearing inner race and outer spacer. So when the axle nut is at torque spec there should be no lateral torque applied to the bearing bearing inner race. From the looks of the pictures it appears to me like there is thrust against the inner race which should not be there. When you install the first #3 bearing in the above diagram use a socket large enough to mate with the outer race but fits into the bearing recess and drive it flush to the hub with a hammer into the hub recess. Insert the axle, slide the spacer over the axle, insert the other #3 bearing, then withdraw the axle just far enough to maintain orientation on the bearing and spacer and drive that second bearing home with the socket and hammer. When done the spacer should be tight against the inner races and you should be able to withdraw the axle without dislodging the spacer. If that spacer moves it's too short and thrust will be applied to the bearing when the axle nut is torqued and that will cause premature failure. If you want to verify the bearings are properly seated in the hub and against the inner spacer, reassemble the wheel and before mounting in the bike, put enough washers over the axle threads to torque the axle to spec then suspend the wheel by the axle and give it a spin holding the axle stopped. The wheel should spin without any binding on the new bearings and no free play.

 

[skinhead]

The inner spacer is what the torque of the axle nut is applied to against the bearing inner race and outer spacer. So when the axle nut is at torque spec there should be no lateral torque applied to the bearing bearing inner race. From the looks of the pictures it appears to me like there is thrust against the inner race which should not be there. When you install the first #3 bearing in the above diagram use a socket large enough to mate with the outer race but fits into the bearing recess and drive it flush to the hub with a hammer into the hub recess. Insert the axle, slide the spacer over the axle, insert the other #3 bearing, then withdraw the axle just far enough to maintain orientation on the bearing and spacer and drive that second bearing home with the socket and hammer. When done the spacer should be tight against the inner races and you should be able to withdraw the axle without dislodging the spacer. If that spacer moves it's too short and thrust will be applied to the bearing when the axle nut is torqued and that will cause premature failure. If you want to verify the bearings are properly seated in the hub and against the inner spacer, reassemble the wheel and before mounting in the bike, put enough washers over the axle threads to torque the axle to spec then suspend the wheel by the axle and give it a spin holding the axle stopped. The wheel should spin without any binding on the new bearings and no free play.

when normaly doing wheel bearings you will know instantly if the spacer is to small after fitment,as both bearings fit against the hub and spacer,but on the storm the inside bearing only comes up against the spacer,so it will be a perfect fit even if spacer is short,but if the spacer is to short as i think mine is the gap would be between the inner bearing and the cush drive spacer No 17 in diagram which you wont see after putting cush drive onto wheel ,then when tightening the spindle it would push the inner race of the brake side bearing against spacer pushing the wheel inner bearing onto said spacer,but because the brake side bearing outer race is flush with hub it would destroy it quickly,so you would only notice binding if you did tightening of the axle with cush drive attached,and that is what i will check in morning with new spacer.

 

[skinhead]

when normaly doing wheel bearings you will know instantly if the spacer is to small after fitment,as both bearings fit against the hub and spacer,but on the storm the inside bearing only comes up against the spacer,so it will be a perfect fit even if spacer is short,but if the spacer is to short as i think mine is the gap would be between the inner bearing and the cush drive spacer No 17 in diagram which you wont see after putting cush drive onto wheel ,then when tightening the spindle it would push the inner race of the brake side bearing against spacer pushing the wheel inner bearing onto said spacer,but because the brake side bearing outer race is flush with hub it would destroy it quickly,so you would only notice binding if you did tightening of the axle with cush drive attached,and that is what i will check in morning with new spacer.

im realy confused now,the first photo is all the bearings and spacers fitted,and theres a 30mm gap,that can fit 2 14mm bearings the extra slack taken up when tightening spindle,this would only make sense if the the 3rd photo spacer inside cush drive roller bearing and should be up against right side wheel bearing be 28mm longer

 

[skinhead]

so when i tightened wheel theres no suppert on inner wheel bearing crushing outer bearing also doing the same to cush roller bearing but that has a circlip fitted and if it didn't have circlip that would have collapsed,surely this wasnt how they where disigned as every one would fail,what am i missing

 

[Qship]

Have you looked in the service manual in the sticky section at top of this sub forum. It should have diagrams and specs for your bike. The Storm was not much more than a hot rod version of the 1600 T'birds.

 

[atomsplitter]

By my count there should be 4 spacers, 1 sleeve, 2 circlips, 4 total bearings and when assembled the spindle nut torque should be against the ball bearing inner races with zero thrust.

 

[atomsplitter]

im realy confused now,the first photo is all the bearings and spacers fitted,and theres a 30mm gap,that can fit 2 14mm bearings the extra slack taken up when tightening spindle,this would only make sense if the the 3rd photo spacer inside cush drive roller bearing and should be up against right side wheel bearing be 28mm longer

That gap should be taken up by the cush drive hub the drive pulley attaches to. The manual Qship is referring to will tell you to use a tool to draw the bearings in but not how to assemble the wheel parts.

When you remove the wheel bearings do they need to be drifted out (with hammer and punch), or do they fall out on their own?

 

[skinhead]

IT seems i was missing something the brake spacer,jeez, well the problem was the shortened wheel spacer,how it got short i have no idea,cheers.

 

[skinhead]

That gap should be taken up by the cush drive hub the drive pulley attaches to. The manual Qship is referring to will tell you to use a tool to draw the bearings in but not how to assemble the wheel parts.

When you remove the wheel bearings do they need to be drifted out (with hammer and punch), or do they fall out on their own?

im an idiot that gap is the brake spacer,cheers,the wheel shifts over to the right,got there in the end.

 

[sikatri]

Congrats on figuring it out!