Current Tire Choices For '95-'00 Thunderbirds

[CarlS]

Unfortunately, the Kineo wheels for front are only offered in a 17inch size for Thunderbird Sport. Just got off phone with Michelin Motorcycle Tire Division Rep. Who said, essentially- "Um, er, we don't recommend using tubes with a ZR rated radial tubeless tire"(same as Pirelli/Metzeler). When asked "This bike came OEM with Michelin radial tires and (likely Michelin tubes!). Michelin no longer makes those tires, what is your recommended replacement?" - no definitive answer. BUT... "I'll pass this on to the tech people and we will get back to you" So, maybe more info forthcoming

Odds are there won't be an answer forthcoming. Remember, lawyers rule!

 

[sikatri]

This is always an interesting topic for those of us with any Triumph with spoked wheels. Sooner or later I’ll need new tires.

 

[atomsplitter]

Unfortunately, the Kineo wheels for front are only offered in a 17inch size for Thunderbird Sport. Just got off phone with Michelin Motorcycle Tire Division Rep. Who said, essentially- "Um, er, we don't recommend using tubes with a ZR rated radial tubeless tire"(same as Pirelli/Metzeler). When asked "This bike came OEM with Michelin radial tires and (likely Michelin tubes!). Michelin no longer makes those tires, what is your recommended replacement?" - no definitive answer. BUT... "I'll pass this on to the tech people and we will get back to you" So, maybe more info forthcoming

Michelin is just CYA (CTA?) when it comes to Z rated tires. A tire rated for that kind of speed is built to handle a lot of heat to the carcass from the friction forces applied to the compound from the road surface.
No inner tube is heat rated so elevating the temperature of the tube in contact with the tire could cause the tube to fail. If your tire never sees sustained speeds the north side of 75 mph the odds it gets too hot are negligible (like 2% to 3% risk). You ride it at 180 mph for 2 hours on a closed circuit the odds are almost 100% you'll overheat the tube.

From the web: According to California Scientific, Z-rated motorcycle tires can reach speeds of 150 mph or more. However, the tread can separate from the belts at high speeds. Most experts agree that 195 degrees Fahrenheit is the point at which tire temperature begins to affect life. At 250 degrees, the tire may start to lose structural strength and tread may revert.

 

[CarlS]

In my 66 years of riding, I have always owned bikes with spoked wheels requiring inner tubes. I have ridden across the the USA and much of Ontario and Quebec Canada. Unless you are competitively racing or doing frequent track days, this is much ado about nothing. Any tube of the right size will work.

 

[atomsplitter]

In my 66 years of riding, I have always owned bikes with spoked wheels requiring inner tubes. I have ridden across the the USA and much of Ontario and Quebec Canada. Unless you are competitively racing or doing frequent track days, this is much ado about nothing. Any tube of the right size will work.

What he said..............

 

[JCooper]

Yeah, "me too". I decided not to obsess over it a long time ago.

 

[sikatri]

Yeah, "me too". I decided not to obsess over it a long time ago.

Speeds I ride won’t make any difference! In my mind I’m racing along at 150 mph, in reality I’m going 55 mph. LoL.

 

[dearborn]

Update; Both Michelin reps I spoke to on phone said- " No Michelin tubes in tubeless radial tires!" (Michelin Airstop, a known quality item). Pirelli/Metzeler say "No tubes in ZR rated radial tubeless tire, BUT the fitment of tubes in radial tyres is possible under certain conditions" Hmmmm... what "certain conditions could that be? Riding since 1965, currently have 4 Norton Commandos and the Thunderbird, but never owned a bike with radial tires- so no first-hand experience. Haynes manual for Triumph 3&4 cyl. Hinckley bikes says "ZR rated tires up to VIN..." (mine is in that range), and "Triumph Thunderbird wheels require tubes". Long search for owner's manual- (it's around here somewhere!) turns up this- "Thunderbird spoked wheels require tubes" and- "Tyre option #2- ZR RATED MICHELIN RADIALS!! (But Michelin no longer makes these tires). So- I have already bought the AVON Spirit STs and the Michelin Airstop tubes, they are next to the bike on the lift and I'm gonna put 'em on. Living here in the Motor City, I do a fair amount of 80+ mph freeway riding, maybe 25%, and some long, out of State runs, so I have instructed the Mrs. that should they blow up and kill me, the necessary legal papers to prove that Triumph says "No worries, put the tubes in the ZR radial tires!" are located here and give 'em to the lawyers when you sue the crap out of 'em!

 

[CarlS]

I think you are perfectly safe. I personally don't buy Z rated tires. I don't do track days and I don't ride 150 mph. Like you, I do ride 80 to 85 mph on the freeways. I have a radial on the rear of my 2020 T120 with a tube.

 

[atomsplitter]

I replaced the Pirelli Diablo Rosso II's on my 2016 Thruxton R a year ago and they are ZR's with a tube. I also have fairly small chicken strips on them. I've never concerned myself with whether the inner tube would hold up, mostly because I never approach the limits of speed with this tire. It's a soft compound meant for track and sport riding. Since I'll never take them over 150 mph with my TTR I don't worry about overheating the tire.

 

[sikatri]

Asking tire manufacturers is pretty useless today. Even if they felt it’s perfectly safe and would backup what the experienced ones here have noted about the use of tubeless radial tires and inner tubes their lawyers won’t allow them to verify it. It’s been a pretty standard practice since wire spoked wheels still exist today, look at the tire sellers and tire shops. Took a brief look at tires and some specifically claim to be Triumph approved for the new classic models. Looked at Revzilla site, and all contained a comment on changing new, valve stem, tube and/or rim strip when installing new tires. As atomsplitter, CarlS and JCooper noted I wouldn’t worry about it.

This one the seller claims Triumph technical approval.

 

[dearborn]

Asking tire manufacturers is pretty useless today. Even if they felt it’s perfectly safe and would backup what the experienced ones here have noted about the use of tubeless radial tires and inner tubes their lawyers won’t allow them to verify it. It’s been a pretty standard practice since wire spoked wheels still exist today, look at the tire sellers and tire shops. Took a brief look at tires and some specifically claim to be Triumph approved for the new classic models. Looked at Revzilla site, and all contained a comment on changing new, valve stem, tube and/or rim strip when installing new tires. As atomsplitter, CarlS and JCooper noted I wouldn’t worry about it.
View attachment 57789
This one the seller claims Triumph technical approval.

But note- This Michelin "Road Classic" tire in the above is a BIAS PLY TIRE, not a radial, which is what the question is all about. No, I don't do the speeds a ZR rated tire is capable of, but I do, say, take a run down to the Auburn-Cord-Deusenberg Museum or the AMA Motorcycle Hall of Fame or similar, which will be around a 250+-mile day, about 90% of which will be on the highway at around 80-85mph avg. So, heat buildup is a reasonable concern. And- though repeated emails to AVON, no reply when asked, "On your website you recommend the "Spirit ST" ZR radial as the only recommended AVON tire replacement for the 1996 Triumph Thunderbird 900, which tube to use?" Yes, so maybe I am being a bit too cautious, but I LOVE riding motorcycles, been doing it since 1965 and it has gotten me through divorce, the deaths of my parents and my son, (my best riding partner), illness, unemployment and a million other things. I love it so much I don't want to get killed doing it.

 

[sikatri]

But note- This Michelin "Road Classic" tire in the above is a BIAS PLY TIRE, not a radial, which is what the question is all about. No, I don't do the speeds a ZR rated tire is capable of, but I do, say, take a run down to the Auburn-Cord-Deusenberg Museum or the AMA Motorcycle Hall of Fame or similar, which will be around a 250+-mile day, about 90% of which will be on the highway at around 80-85mph avg. So, heat buildup is a reasonable concern. And- though repeated emails to AVON, no reply when asked, "On your website you recommend the "Spirit ST" ZR radial as the only recommended AVON tire replacement for the 1996 Triumph Thunderbird 900, which tube to use?" Yes, so maybe I am being a bit too cautious, but I LOVE riding motorcycles, been doing it since 1965 and it has gotten me through divorce, the deaths of my parents and my son, (my best riding partner), illness, unemployment and a million other things. I love it so much I don't want to get killed doing it.

Regardless of my post, others have indicated radials being used with tubes. My point was to show you there are tire brands out there that can be used with tubes and have some acknowledgement from Triumph. I’m not going to Google every option, they are out there though. Make the best choices with the information given. Good tire combinations are on the market to select from. Just because the original brand isn’t made anymore doesn’t mean others are not just as good. I understand your caution, I’d go through the same process, but when the choices and standard practice becomes clear, I’d simply make a choice. I’d rather not put too much emphasis on it, but one is more likely to die from being hit by an idiot than the tire deflation. While I haven’t had the chance to experience it, my MSF course pretty clearly drilled in what to do in case either tire lost pressure. You likely know those by heart having ridden as long as you have. You’ve likely experienced it a few times, I’d be surprised if you have not.

 

[CarlS]

HBut note- This Michelin "Road Classic" tire in the above is a BIAS PLY TIRE, not a radial, which is what the question is all about. No, I don't do the speeds a ZR rated tire is capable of, but I do, say, take a run down to the Auburn-Cord-Deusenberg Museum or the AMA Motorcycle Hall of Fame or similar, which will be around a 250+-mile day, about 90% of which will be on the highway at around 80-85mph avg. So, heat buildup is a reasonable concern. And- though repeated emails to AVON, no reply when asked, "On your website you recommend the "Spirit ST" ZR radial as the only recommended AVON tire replacement for the 1996 Triumph Thunderbird 900, which tube to use?" Yes, so maybe I am being a bit too cautious, but I LOVE riding motorcycles, been doing it since 1965 and it has gotten me through divorce, the deaths of my parents and my son, (my best riding partner), illness, unemployment and a million other things. I love it so much I don't want to get killed doing it.

As I stated above, I have ridden ZR tires with tubes until the tires were worn out with no problems. These rides included riding all over the eastern US and many of the southwestern states. I have been riding since 1958 and I have no death wish. At 70 to 90 mph, the heat build up is not a factor. Put a tube in it that fits and enjoy the ride.

 

[dearborn]

Regardless of my post, others have indicated radials being used with tubes. My point was to show you there are tire brands out there that can be used with tubes and have some acknowledgement from Triumph. I’m not going to Google every option, they are out there though. Make the best choices with the information given. Good tire combinations are on the market to select from. Just because the original brand isn’t made anymore doesn’t mean others are not just as good. I understand your caution, I’d go through the same process, but when the choices and standard practice becomes clear, I’d simply make a choice. I’d rather not put too much emphasis on it, but one is more likely to die from being hit by an idiot than the tire deflation. While I haven’t had the chance to experience it, my MSF course pretty clearly drilled in what to do in case either tire lost pressure. You likely know those by heart having ridden as long as you have. You’ve likely experienced it a few times, I’d be surprised if you have not.

Riding my '83 BMW R100RS at about 80mph on a super hot, 100++ degree day, on way to Wauseon, Ohio for AMCA meet, (Antique Motorcycle Club of America), I had a rear wheel bearing momentarily seize, then disintegrate. As wheel thrashed about, it would grab brake pads, freeze, skid, then wobble the other way, totally out of control. Scared the living hell out of me as I had absolutely no warning nor any real control. Somehow- I have no idea how, I got it to the side of the road. Put it up on center stand and made for the only shade in sight-a tiny 2 foot square shadow of a bush where I watched the stand sink into the hot blacktop on the shoulder and the bike roll over upside down into a ditch. Resolved that day; never own another BMW-(same bike left me stranded in Daytona!- twice!) and be a total fanatic about tires and wheel care!

 

[sikatri]

Riding my '83 BMW R100RS at about 80mph on a super hot, 100++ degree day, on way to Wauseon, Ohio for AMCA meet, (Antique Motorcycle Club of America), I had a rear wheel bearing momentarily seize, then disintegrate. As wheel thrashed about, it would grab brake pads, freeze, skid, then wobble the other way, totally out of control. Scared the living hell out of me as I had absolutely no warning nor any real control. Somehow- I have no idea how, I got it to the side of the road. Put it up on center stand and made for the only shade in sight-a tiny 2 foot square shadow of a bush where I watched the stand sink into the hot blacktop on the shoulder and the bike roll over upside down into a ditch. Resolved that day; never own another BMW-(same bike left me stranded in Daytona!- twice!) and be a total fanatic about tires and wheel care!

Well you must have done something right. That is definitely hair raising. So how and what is your tire and wheel routine?

 

[dearborn]

Well you must have done something right. That is definitely hair raising. So how and what is your tire and wheel routine?

ALWAYS- before EVERY ride- visually inspect entire bike for leaks, loose items, lights, horn, etc, and check tire pressure and all fluid levels. At tire replacement- inspect/service or replace wheel bearings. On spoke wheels; apply penetrating oil-WD40 works good- to inner spoke nipples and break all free by loosening then retightening all spokes a quarter turn or so, (all my bikes have stainless spokes and nipples, so take care of 'em so they'll last!), thoroughly clean ALL corrosion from inner wheel surfaces, (soft brass wire brush in electric drill or die grinder works great, but be gentle!), mount wheel on truing stand and true ALL wheels for runout (aim for as close to 10 thou. as possible). After mounting tires, RE-CHECK on truing stand for runout in both planes and balance assembly as perfectly as possible- I have a "COATS" bubble balancer that does a superb job, have checked against a spin balance machine and it comes EXTREMELY close if used with patience. One of these days-after I win the lottery!- I'll buy a proper shop quality tire machine! but for now, I'm stuck with nylon rim protectors, and tire levers with tons of baby powder, rubber lube, or in a pinch-soap suds, but try to avoid that due to corrosion potential of water inside rim cavity. Funny story!- Years ago, a friend of mine got a job in a medical supply warehouse with a leaky roof. After a heavy rain, they would often have to toss out water damaged goods. He once gave me 5, 1 gallon jugs of K-Y jelly- yep, THAT K-Y! And it works damn good for mounting bike tires! But i got a lot of strange looks from garage visitors! Two gynecologist exam tables bolted together made an excellent motorcycle work stand. And the nice, padded swivel gynecologist stool is perfect height for peering into bike "innards"!! One thing I always wished for from there was a nice stainless autopsy table!- the sloped top with the drain would be perfect for doing engine or transmission work! Easy clean-up, too!

 

[dearborn]

Someday, you, too, will sell a BMW!

 

[dearborn]

They are Dunlop 404's.

Dunlop 404 is a bias ply, very commonly used on various H-Ds (in the correct size). A "middle of the road" "cruiser" tire, widely available, often at discount prices. I have used them on my '96 Thunderbird, 2000 H-D police Road king and H-D FXRP police. Though not a sticky performance tire, they are perfectly fine for a "cruiser". They have good tread life, are decent on wet pavement. Not a "great" tire but good value for the money.