Need A Part/bolt Identified

[triumphantrider]

OK, I get it. When I was working for a living I lived out in the sticks and did almost all the maintenance on all my equipment including a 1941 Farmall H tractor. That thing was originally designed to run on distallate (basically kerosene) and my shop wall had a fair number of tools bounce off it as a result of one breakdown or another and the lack of parts availability. I was fortunate though, there was a semi local (about 15 miles away) tractor mechanic that was intimately familiar with my tractor (I think he was born before WW I) that gave free advice and even rebuilt my transmission when the bearings went out. He even converted it to a 12 volt coil vice the 6 volt magneto it was born with.

You know you can still ride the bike with the oil leaks and just top up before a ride, it's not the only solution but is the least frustrating, i.e. do nothing and just live with the mess it makes. Kinda like owning an old Harley, put kitty litter down cuz it's gonna make a mess on the floor.

I certainly do know that, Sir. But with OCD + Bipolar, it kinda personally just gives me an unsatisfied or unsettling feeling. Besides, living with the leak for me, in principal, in terms of the bigger picture, is beyond the point. The fact of the matter is it shouldn't be leaking at all, from anywhere with less than 7000 km's on it and particularly not from that area.
Plus my wife nearly went ass over head slipping on where it leaked. And yeah I did put cardboard under the bike to prevent that from happening again...but once again, it's beyond the point.
Imagine feeling like time after time you are constantly either hearing or seeing bad news (whether in or outside of work, in or outside of your personal life, with motorbike faults/issues, etc)...anything in general, and then they keep being constant, building up...then you mix that with Bipolar + OCD, mixed with feeling like it's you against the world, or God or some sort of higher power has it in for you...then it's quite difficult to not be angry and frustrated.
When I get angry, due to my Bipolar, the problem either HAS to get fixed in the shortest amount of time possible so that my mind becomes free of said issue OR I have to see and invoke destruction of some sort to feel better, to let it out. The thing is I choose the lesser of 2 evils...I take it out on my property and objects that are mine, instead of hurting people or anyone or anything that is a living being. We're all human, we all have a cracking point, it's just for some that threshold is much higher and their luck may be slightly better too. I'm just at that threshold right now...and the more that people "chime in" without actually contributing anything significant to the topic such as something that may go a long way to actually fixing or solving the issue, not sweeping the issue under the rug so to speak...then that threshold then goes into overdrive...like being at the red line...for an extended period of time.
I've given constant warnings, I've been forthcoming about my frustrations, I've done my part...I don't think it's unreasonable of me to want people or "fate" or "luck" to do their part or for things to balance out and start going my way.
And perhaps only those with Bipolar and constant bad luck can understand that, but that's how it is, at least for me...and I try and try and try soooo hard to keep my frustration and emotions in check and to do the right things...but when things keep stacking up and your Bipolar and patience is continually being tested...then of course it's going to start showing.

 

[triumphantrider]

What you could do is to check your oil levels then put a pan under the bike take these out one at a time and see what runs out and then check your oil levels again. You can then replace the washers put new sealant on it and bolt it all up again and that should be that. All the years working on bikes I have always found most oil leaks like this are hit and miss and vary vastly from bike to bike.

Once out I am sure you must have some type of shop that sells nuts and bolts where you could take these to and have new washers matched up to them.

Just looking at your photo it appears that they both have been marked with a pen so it seems that they have been worked on before by someone at some point.

Yeah that's what I was thinking too, that they've been worked on or tampered with before.
But there is actually no stock of those bolts anywhere in this country. They will have to be a back order from Triumph themselves...many, many weeks away.
They are an M10x1.25x130mm crankcase bolt, which there are 24 of. That one is the only leaky one.

 

[atomsplitter]

I certainly do know that, Sir. But with OCD + Bipolar, it kinda personally just gives me an unsatisfied or unsettling feeling. Besides, living with the leak for me, in principal, in terms of the bigger picture, is beyond the point. The fact of the matter is it shouldn't be leaking at all, from anywhere with less than 7000 km's on it and particularly not from that area.
Plus my wife nearly went ass over head slipping on where it leaked. And yeah I did put cardboard under the bike to prevent that from happening again...but once again, it's beyond the point.
Imagine feeling like time after time you are constantly either hearing or seeing bad news (whether in or outside of work, in or outside of your personal life, with motorbike faults/issues, etc)...anything in general, and then they keep being constant, building up...then you mix that with Bipolar + OCD, mixed with feeling like it's you against the world, or God or some sort of higher power has it in for you...then it's quite difficult to not be angry and frustrated.
When I get angry, due to my Bipolar, the problem either HAS to get fixed in the shortest amount of time possible so that my mind becomes free of said issue OR I have to see and invoke destruction of some sort to feel better, to let it out. The thing is I choose the lesser of 2 evils...I take it out on my property and objects that are mine, instead of hurting people or anyone or anything that is a living being. We're all human, we all have a cracking point, it's just for some that threshold is much higher and their luck may be slightly better too. I'm just at that threshold right now...and the more that people "chime in" without actually contributing anything significant to the topic...that may go a long way to fixing or solving the issue...then that threshold then goes into overdrive...like being at the red line...for an extended period of time. ANd perhaps only those with bipolar and constant bad luck can understand that, but that's how it is, at least for me...and I try and try and try soooo hard to keep my frustration and emotions in check...but when things keep stacking up...then of course it's going to start showing.

Noted.

 

[DaveM]

Yeah that's what I was thinking too, that they've been worked on or tampered with before.
But there is actually no stock of those bolts anywhere in this country. They will have to be a back order from Triumph themselves...many, many weeks away.
They are an M10x1.25x130mm crankcase bolt, which there are 24 of. That one is the only leaky one.

You should not need new bolts only crush washer at the best and new sealant to seal them.

 

[triumphantrider]

You should not need new bolts only crush washer at the best and new sealant to seal them.

Unless it's in their so tight and using an impact wrench starts rounding the bolt head. Which my bet is on.
I've got the crush washer and sealant ready...it's now just more about 1. how stubborn is that bolt going to be when I use the impact wrench on it and 2. if I remove it completely to apply the sealant or just loosen it a bit and apply the sealant.

 

[atomsplitter]

Yeah that's what I was thinking too, that they've been worked on or tampered with before.
But there is actually no stock of those bolts anywhere in this country. They will have to be a back order from Triumph themselves...many, many weeks away.
They are an M10x1.25x130mm crankcase bolt, which there are 24 of. That one is the only leaky one.

If you have access to Amazon or some other online retailer can't you order the bolts (eBay comes to mind).

1* M10 x 1.25 x 130mm Titanium Screws Bolts Flange Head for Motorcycle Motorbike | eBay

Length: 130mm. Specification: M10. Material: 6AL/4V Titanium Alloy (Gr5). Color: Titanium Gray.

www.ebay.com

 

[triumphantrider]

If you have access to Amazon or some other online retailer can't you order the bolts (eBay comes to mind).

1* M10 x 1.25 x 130mm Titanium Screws Bolts Flange Head for Motorcycle Motorbike | eBay

Length: 130mm. Specification: M10. Material: 6AL/4V Titanium Alloy (Gr5). Color: Titanium Gray.

www.ebay.com

I did try search eBay & Amazon. Problem is that in Australia there are no online retailers with any stock of that exact bolt size/spec. They will have to come from overseas, meaning 2 or more week wait, meaning I can't ride during my rare spare time.
The ONLY flange hex bolt I've been able to find on eBay or Amazon that's in Australia is an M10x1.25x135mm - so 5mm longer than the stock bolt.

 

[atomsplitter]

I did try search eBay & Amazon. Problem is that in Australia there are no online retailers with any stock of that exact bolt size/spec. They will have to come from overseas, meaning 2 or more week wait, meaning I can't ride during my rare spare time.
The ONLY flange hex bolt I've been able to find on eBay or Amazon that's in Australia is an M10x1.25x135mm - so 5mm longer than the stock bolt.

That would probably work since the bolts aren't bottomed out, or maybe go to a 125mm bolt. You can remove one bolt, use a stiff straight rod and mark the total depth of the crankcase to see if the longer bolts will work, the shorter ones definately will but will have fewer threads engaged when torqued to spec. You can also have a machine shop cut down the 135mm to 130mm and add additional threads but that could get expensive.

Also measure the bolt you take out and check if it's NOT 135mm.

 

[triumphantrider]

That would probably work since the bolts aren't bottomed out, or maybe go to a 125mm bolt. You can remove one bolt, use a stiff straight rod and mark the total depth of the crankcase to see if the longer bolts will work, the shorter ones definately will but will have fewer threads engaged when torqued to spec. You can also have a machine shop cut down the 135mm to 130mm and add additional threads but that could get expensive.

Also measure the bolt you take out and check if it's NOT 135mm.

Thanks. I was able to find ONE that will arrive by the weekend. It's an M10x1.25x130mm and is flanged but doesn't have the middle of the head recessed like the stock bolt, it's just flat but I think it'll work.

 

[triumphantrider]

@atomsplitter
The last thing now is someone on another forum mentioned that in the manual it states the following in regards to the crankcase bolts:
"CAUTION- Failure to follow the correct tightening sequence may result in permanent crankcase damage".

He then said that on the other hand its just 1 out of 24 large & small bolts (total) for the crankcase, so the risk may be very small, but its my risk. Which I understand and accept that risk/responsibility.
But it does state in the manual to tighten it in the following sequence:
1) Tighten to 10nm. 2) Loosen through 140 degrees. 3) Tighten to 10nm. 4) Tighten through 75 degrees.
Question number 1: does loosen through 140 degrees, then 75 degrees even mean?
Question number 2: Seeing as I am just loosening then tightening the 1 (same) bolt and not touching the rest of the crankcase bolts then I don't understand how the tightening sequence (in the star pattern or whatever) would matter or come into play here?
I can definitely understand if I was loosening & tightening 2 or 3 or 4 or more of them. Like there is always 1 bolt in any tightening sequence that is tightened last anyway, you know what I mean...is my thinking/view regarding that correct?

 

[atomsplitter]

@atomsplitter
The last thing now is someone on another forum mentioned that in the manual it states the following in regards to the crankcase bolts:
"CAUTION- Failure to follow the correct tightening sequence may result in permanent crankcase damage".

He then said that on the other hand its just 1 out of 24 large & small bolts (total) for the crankcase, so the risk may be very small, but its my risk. Which I understand and accept that risk/responsibility.
But it does state in the manual to tighten it in the following sequence:
1) Tighten to 10nm. 2) Loosen through 140 degrees. 3) Tighten to 10nm. 4) Tighten through 75 degrees.
Question number 1: does loosen through 140 degrees, then 75 degrees even mean?
Question number 2: Seeing as I am just loosening then tightening the 1 (same) bolt and not touching the rest of the crankcase bolts then I don't understand how the tightening sequence (in the star pattern or whatever) would matter or come into play here?
I can definitely understand if I was loosening & tightening 2 or 3 or 4 or more of them. Like there is always 1 bolt in any tightening sequence that is tightened last anyway, you know what I mean...is my thinking/view regarding that correct?

Can you give me a link to that manual? One it sounds like someone in his cups wrote it, and second it makes no sense at all for fastening a cover or even 2 halves of a crankcase. A torque spec isn't done in degrees (for which you need a degree wheel). On the surface it seems hinkey. I'll need to investigate to advise.

 

[triumphantrider]

Can you give me a link to that manual? One it sounds like someone in his cups wrote it, and second it makes no sense at all for fastening a cover or even 2 halves of a crankcase. A torque spec isn't done in degrees (for which you need a degree wheel). On the surface it seems hinkey. I'll need to investigate to advise.

Yeah. The image is attached. I can't give you a link to the manual because it's a digital manual stored locally, but I screenshot the section in the manual where it says it. It says it in my service manual too.
There are indeed 5 stages but I'm only loosening and re-tightening 1 bolt...so does that even really apply to me in this circumstance? Because there is always one last bolt in any tightening sequence, once all the other ones are tightened.

 

[atomsplitter]

OK I found this:



Here's my thought. If you take out one bolt, then replace that bolt and torque it to spec, then you haven't challenged any sequence. If you take out all the bolts and drop the bottom half of the crankcase you have a myriad of challenges ahead. There is no reason one bolt can't be replaced at a time, sealed, torqued and then move to the next bolt that should lead to a catastrophic failure. So to answer your question YES, doing 1 bolt ata time, torqued to spec and then doing the next bolt will work a treat.

 

[triumphantrider]

OK I found this:
View attachment 58070


Here's my thought. If you take out one bolt, then replace that bolt and torque it to spec, then you haven't challenged any sequence. If you take out all the bolts and drop the bottom half of the crankcase you have a myriad of challenges ahead. There is no reason one bolt can't be replaced at a time, sealed, torqued and then move to the next bolt that should lead to a catastrophic failure. So to answer your question YES, doing 1 bolt ata time, torqued to spec and then doing the next bolt will work a treat.

Thanks. I'm only doing the one bolt. Not touching any of the others.
Anyway I've uploaded the rest of that section from the manual in image form as I'm not sure the exact torque spec of that bolt (number 5 or 6) on the crankcase bolt diagram. I think it's saying 10nm...but the others for the other end of the crankcase are higher than that.
But regardless, I'm only removing, putting sealant then re-tightening that one bolt, none of the others.

 

[atomsplitter]

OK I'll try to give you the rationale:
1) Tighten to 10nm. 2) Loosen through 140 degrees. 3) Tighten to 10nm. 4) Tighten through 75 degrees.

The sequence given of tighten to 10nm then loosen to 140 degrees means ensure its seated then back off until bolt is loose. Then tighten to 10 nm again means you have taken up any slack in the sealing surface and gasket with the initial torque and final torque starts at 10nm. Tighten through 75 degrees from 10nm will add additional torque, but it's more important to get the bolt to seat surface length right than actual torque. So when you pull that bolt out, slather on your sealant and reinsert it, first get it to 10nm and then tighten another 1/4 turn and you're done.

 

[triumphantrider]

OK I'll try to give you the rationale:
1) Tighten to 10nm. 2) Loosen through 140 degrees. 3) Tighten to 10nm. 4) Tighten through 75 degrees.

The sequence given of tighten to 10nm then loosen to 140 degrees means ensure its seated then back off until bolt is loose. Then tighten to 10 nm again means you have taken up any slack in the sealing surface and gasket with the initial torque and final torque starts at 10nm. Tighten through 75 degrees from 10nm will add additional torque, but it's more important to get the bolt to seat surface length right than actual torque. So when you pull that bolt out, slather on your sealant and reinsert it, first get it to 10nm and then tighten another 1/4 turn and you're done.

So doing that 1 bolt is virtually a simple task that shouldn't cause any issues by doing so?
Thank you so, so much honestly. You've been a great help.

 

[atomsplitter]

So doing that 1 bolt is virtually a simple task that shouldn't cause any issues by doing so?
Thank you so, so much honestly. You've been a great help.

Yes! And as long as you're patient explaining what you need I'm happy to provide what help I can. I can be a little dense since I spent a decade plus teachiing nuclear power plant reactor operations to men and women with limited educations. Although I must admit some of the hardest of those nuts to crack were the folks that came into class with engineering degrees.

 

[Rocky]

Good stuff atomsplitter. I was following this thread and I'm glad it turned out so well for both of you

Your engineering students comment made me chuckle

 

[Qship]

Been following as well.
Glad you are getting it sorted @triumphantrider. Hard to give advice over the interwebs, sometimes. Think @atomsplitter is doing a great job trying to get you fixed up.
It is unusual for a bike like yours to be leaking at so many spots. Do you have any history or knowledge about your bike?

 

[triumphantrider]

Thanks everyone. Just to provide an update, I removed the bolt, applied thread sealant to it and reinserted it. All went well. No more leaks so far.
I appreciate the help @atomsplitter and thanks to everyone else that was following.