Removing The Cam Chain Tensioner T100 2020 Engine.

[nickjaxe]

Hi all....I have a 1 year old 900cc T100 water-cooled Bonnie.

Around the time of its first oil change 500miles.....I noticed a tapping/rattle sort of noise soon after a cold start...not right away but maybe after is been idling for 20seconds.

Only lass around 30 to 45 seconds and then is gone till the next cold start.

I am starting to think maybe the hydraulic cam chain tensioner is leaking its oil out over night....the oil inlet is tiny so it will take a time to re-fill.....over course I maybe well out with this idea....the dealers tech guy said no idea whats causing it....just ignore it as its not there all the time.

Its so easy to get the tensioner out....but the Haynes manual say the cam needs locking before the tensioner is removed.

Does anybody know if its strictly necessary to have to lock the cams.

I know that if the engine was turned with the tensioner removed....the chain could slip and balls up the valve timing.

Or is there more to it that I have not realised?

I dont want to disturb any more than necessary being a brand new engine....and dont have a lot of confidence in the local dealer.

Nick in the UK.

 

[sikatri]

There’s a tool most likely for locking the cams. I had to do the same on my MINI.

 

[nickjaxe]

There’s a tool most likely for locking the cams. I had to do the same on my MINI.

There is...easy to make....but I didn't want to disturb the rocker cover and tank if I dont need to.

I was hoping it not necessary.

 

[sikatri]

Best way to get to know the engine is to have a look. If you don’t trust dealer then I’d go for it.

 

[nickjaxe]

Best way to get to know the engine is to have a look. If you don’t trust dealer then I’d go for it.

Thing is I don't trust anybody these days.....builders/mechanics ect ect.....

Just want to rule out the tensioner is not the cause of my cold start rattle.

I will have a read up in my manual and see whats involved.

Worked on engines all my life...but not a lot on modern bike engines.....rebuilt the engine on my 1960s BSA.

I would love to able to trust the dealer.....but its a sign of the times....could come back with more probs than it went in with.

 

[sikatri]

Thing is I don't trust anybody these days.....builders/mechanics ect ect.....

Just want to rule out the tensioner is not the cause of my cold start rattle.

I will have a read up in my manual and see whats involved.

Worked on engines all my life...but not a lot on modern bike engines.....rebuilt the engine on my 1960s BSA.

I would love to able to trust the dealer.....but its a sign of the times....could come back with more probs than it went in with.

Years ago I bought a brand new MINI JCW, I regularly brought it to the dealership for maintenance, it had a long warranty. About a year before the warranty was about to expire I noticed the car was coming back with more handling marks and scratches on components. I stopped bringing it in and started doing all the work myself. I shifted from the service department to the parts department. I invested in tools and 13 years later I still have a MINI that looks near new, a few parts are going through natural disintegration and will be replaced. But, I’m not having my blood boil which is a positive.

 

[ManInTheJar]

Hi all....I have a 1 year old 900cc T100 water-cooled Bonnie.

Around the time of its first oil change 500miles.....I noticed a tapping/rattle sort of noise soon after a cold start...not right away but maybe after is been idling for 20seconds.

Only lass around 30 to 45 seconds and then is gone till the next cold start.

I am starting to think maybe the hydraulic cam chain tensioner is leaking its oil out over night....the oil inlet is tiny so it will take a time to re-fill.....over course I maybe well out with this idea....the dealers tech guy said no idea whats causing it....just ignore it as its not there all the time.

Its so easy to get the tensioner out....but the Haynes manual say the cam needs locking before the tensioner is removed.

Does anybody know if its strictly necessary to have to lock the cams.

I know that if the engine was turned with the tensioner removed....the chain could slip and balls up the valve timing.

Or is there more to it that I have not realised?

I dont want to disturb any more than necessary being a brand new engine....and dont have a lot of confidence in the local dealer.

Nick in the UK.

Hydraulic tensioners will inevitably lose pressure when the engine isn't running but the tensioner mechanism generally contain a ratchet and or light spring to maintain some tension. It's not uncommon for the the chain to rattle slightly whilst the oil pressure builds in the tensioner - one of the many reasons why the engine shouldn't be revealed hard when just started.

If removing the tensioner to check it, the important thing is not to disturb the valve timing. I haven't done this on a T100 but in general as a minimum before removing the tensioner I would remove the rocker cover and timing cover then rotate the engine until the timing marks on the cam sprockets and the crankshaft timing mark all line up (take photos to remind you how they are positioned). I would then (at the timing cover end) wedge a suitably sized socket between the cam chain tensioner blade and the casing as close to the tensioner as possible to maintain chain tension when the tensioner is removed. Finally I would re-check and note the timing marks before removing the tensioner.

When removing the tensioner loosen the bolts evenly and listen/feel for the ratchet loosening off. With the tensioner out you can clean and check the mechanism as required. NOTE there will probably be a reset procedure you need to perform before refitting the tensioner, this will hold the tensioner plunger back until it is fitted and the ENGINE TURNED OVER BY HAND at which point the tensioner plunger should pop out and engage with the tensioner blade.

NOTE fit a new gasket and//or o-ring to the tensioner before refitting as it is a real hassle to replace them if they leak at a later date.

Now re-check timing marks then remove the socket behind the tensioner blade and turn the engine over by hand using a socket and bar on the crankshaft nut. You should hear a loud click as the tensioner plunger is released. Check chain is tightish and re-check all timing marks.

If all is OK put everything back together and start the engine keeping the revs low, it will sound like a bag of nails for a few seconds as the oil pressure builds and the ratchet adjusts.

All in all it is a fairly straightforward, if fiddly job but the scope for significant engine damage is high if it goes wrong hence the need to proceed methodically and re-check everything. There are special tools to help but they are expensive and not risk free either.

 

[nickjaxe]

Hydraulic tensioners will inevitably lose pressure when the engine isn't running but the tensioner mechanism generally contain a ratchet and or light spring to maintain some tension. It's not uncommon for the the chain to rattle slightly whilst the oil pressure builds in the tensioner - one of the many reasons why the engine shouldn't be revealed hard when just started.

If removing the tensioner to check it, the important thing is not to disturb the valve timing. I haven't done this on a T100 but in general as a minimum before removing the tensioner I would remove the rocker cover and timing cover then rotate the engine until the timing marks on the cam sprockets and the crankshaft timing mark all line up (take photos to remind you how they are positioned). I would then (at the timing cover end) wedge a suitably sized socket between the cam chain tensioner blade and the casing as close to the tensioner as possible to maintain chain tension when the tensioner is removed. Finally I would re-check and note the timing marks before removing the tensioner.

When removing the tensioner loosen the bolts evenly and listen/feel for the ratchet loosening off. With the tensioner out you can clean and check the mechanism as required. NOTE there will probably be a reset procedure you need to perform before refitting the tensioner, this will hold the tensioner plunger back until it is fitted and the ENGINE TURNED OVER BY HAND at which point the tensioner plunger should pop out and engage with the tensioner blade.

NOTE fit a new gasket and//or o-ring to the tensioner before refitting as it is a real hassle to replace them if they leak at a later date.

Now re-check timing marks then remove the socket behind the tensioner blade and turn the engine over by hand using a socket and bar on the crankshaft nut. You should hear a loud click as the tensioner plunger is released. Check chain is tightish and re-check all timing marks.

If all is OK put everything back together and start the engine keeping the revs low, it will sound like a bag of nails for a few seconds as the oil pressure builds and the ratchet adjusts.

All in all it is a fairly straightforward, if fiddly job but the scope for significant engine damage is high if it goes wrong hence the need to proceed methodically and re-check everything. There are special tools to help but they are expensive and not risk free either.

Thank you MTJ....not had a chance yet but will have a more detailed read of the manual I have.....its odd the light rally only showed its self after the bikes first oil change.....

I believe the oil from the factory is straight SAE30 to aid running in....and its not got fully synthetic 10/40 in it....wondering if the heavier when cold running in oil could have stayed in the hyd tensioned better that the thin fully synthetic.

 

[ManInTheJar]

Thank you MTJ....not had a chance yet but will have a more detailed read of the manual I have.....its odd the light rally only showed its self after the bikes first oil change.....

I believe the oil from the factory is straight SAE30 to aid running in....and its not got fully synthetic 10/40 in it....wondering if the heavier when cold running in oil could have stayed in the hyd tensioned better that the thin fully synthetic.

A hydraulic tensioner will generally back off slightly to the nearest ratchet point when the engine is shutdown and over time the oil feed to it will partially drain through gravity. When the engine is restarted the tensioner only provides full tension when it is fully pressurised. The oil viscosity will certainly determine how quickly the tensioner is pressurised, not to mention how quickly oil reaches other critical parts of the engine so it is important to make sure you have the correct grade for your riding conditions.

You don't mention the mileage your bike has done but a dirty filter or oil pick up screen could also have an effect on the time it takes for the oil pressure to reach the required value.

Triumph also have a habit of retrospectively changing recommended oil levels/capacities - it is worth checking yours is at the correct level and of the correct type (semi or full synthetic)

The tensioner procedure I described is based on experience of multi-cyliner engines with end mounted cam chains. The T100 is a twin with a central cam chain, it is worth watching this video from TecBikeParts which shows how to replace the cam on a T100, the process involves removing, checking and resetting the cam tensioner which should be helpful if you decide to go ahead and remove it.

Camshaft (De-restrict Stage 1 Tune) 900cc early type Street Twin / Street Cup / T100 – Water-cooled – TEC Bike Parts

www.tecbikeparts.com

 

[nickjaxe]

A hydraulic tensioner will generally back off slightly to the nearest ratchet point when the engine is shutdown and over time the oil feed to it will partially drain through gravity. When the engine is restarted the tensioner only provides full tension when it is fully pressurised. The oil viscosity will certainly determine how quickly the tensioner is pressurised, not to mention how quickly oil reaches other critical parts of the engine so it is important to make sure you have the correct grade for your riding conditions.

You don't mention the mileage your bike has done but a dirty filter or oil pick up screen could also have an effect on the time it takes for the oil pressure to reach the required value.

Triumph also have a habit of retrospectively changing recommended oil levels/capacities - it is worth checking yours is at the correct level and of the correct type (semi or full synthetic)

The tensioner procedure I described is based on experience of multi-cyliner engines with end mounted cam chains. The T100 is a twin with a central cam chain, it is worth watching this video from TecBikeParts which shows how to replace the cam on a T100, the process involves removing, checking and resetting the cam tensioner which should be helpful if you decide to go ahead and remove it.

Camshaft (De-restrict Stage 1 Tune) 900cc early type Street Twin / Street Cup / T100 – Water-cooled – TEC Bike Parts

www.tecbikeparts.com

Yeah watched the TEC cam vid....bike has do 1500mls.....noise started at first oil change 600mls.

Its possible the noise was there before the oil change and I just didn't notice it.

I feel there is a good chance my tensioner is draining overnight.

Had a good read of the manual tonight....seems the crank as well as the cam has to be locked....which involves removing the engine right side cover with is a PITA as there is a possibility of oil leaks were the wiring enters the casing after re-assembly.

If I knew for sure no harm was being done with this sound I hear from the motor I would ignore it.....as I say....its only there for maybe 60secs on cold start.

 

[ManInTheJar]

Yeah watched the TEC cam vid....bike has do 1500mls.....noise started at first oil change 600mls.

Its possible the noise was there before the oil change and I just didn't notice it.

I feel there is a good chance my tensioner is draining overnight.

Had a good read of the manual tonight....seems the crank as well as the cam has to be locked....which involves removing the engine right side cover with is a PITA as there is a possibility of oil leaks were the wiring enters the casing after re-assembly.

If I knew for sure no harm was being done with this sound I hear from the motor I would ignore it.....as I say....its only there for maybe 60secs on cold start.

It is unlikely to back off to the point where it will cause any damage when the engine is restarted. Basically the design used by Triumph has a series of grooves on the tensioner piston and a detent spring acts as a ratchet to stop the piston moving any further back than the distance between two grooves. There is also a spring to hold the piston lightly in place when the engine is stopped. To help visualise this I have attached a couple if photos if a Street Triple tensioner which is the same basic design.

The worst that could happen is the chain might rub on the casing but this is highly unlikely especially on a bike if this age. Personally I would just monitor the noise, carefully check the oil for metal particles at the next change and check you have the correct grade of oil. The alternative of stripping it and checking the tensioner is risky and time consuming.

If it starts to get worse then a different course of action might be required.

 

[nickjaxe]

It is unlikely to back off to the point where it will cause any damage when the engine is restarted. Basically the design used by Triumph has a series of grooves on the tensioner piston and a detent spring acts as a ratchet to stop the piston moving any further back than the distance between two grooves. There is also a spring to hold the piston lightly in place when the engine is stopped. To help visualise this I have attached a couple if photos if a Street Triple tensioner which is the same basic design.

The worst that could happen is the chain might rub on the casing but this is highly unlikely especially on a bike if this age. Personally I would just monitor the noise, carefully check the oil for metal particles at the next change and check you have the correct grade of oil. The alternative of stripping it and checking the tensioner is risky and time consuming.

If it starts to get worse then a different course of action might be required.

And of course it may not be the tensioner.

Its got the correct grade of Castrol oil in it......its only done 1000mls and with it cost £35 GBP....but I am tempted to drop it and re-fill with the Semi Synthetic that Triumph also say is ok to use...10/50 rather than the 10/40 thats in now.

Even the service manager at service time thinks the fully synthetic oil Triumph recommend is to thin.

 

[ManInTheJar]

And of course it may not be the tensioner.

Its got the correct grade of Castrol oil in it......its only done 1000mls and with it cost £35 GBP....but I am tempted to drop it and re-fill with the Semi Synthetic that Triumph also say is ok to use...10/50 rather than the 10/40 thats in now.

Even the service manager at service time thinks the fully synthetic oil Triumph recommend is to thin.

Sounds like a good plan.

 

[nickjaxe]

Sounds like a good plan.

Hi there.....been a few years since we chatted about this subject......was hoping to pick your brains.....hope you still monitor this form Sir.

Been chatting with another 2 owner who are have the same ratting tapping noise 30secs after cold start....over the last 2 years I have been ignoring the tapping sound...as it does diapered after the motor has been idling for around 4 mins.

Its dont seem to have got any worse bike has now covered 8000 mls.

But 2 owner have contacted me after seeing my video on you tube....of my tapping engine.
One with a brand new triumphs with the 1200 twin motor....its tapping away just like mine and a guy with a 2022 1200...same thing.....spoke to many others over the years....Triumph must know what is but are not saying.

Anyway I have started to think about the tensioner again.....on first start up we hear nothing.....only starts to be heard after say 30 seconds then gradually gets louder....lasts for around 3 mins and slowly goes only to be heard again after the bike has sat for several hours.

Does this sound like a tensioner problem?

I would have taken it out to check it but on my Bonneville its a real fiddle of a job tank off lots and lots of electronics that are under the seat and a fiddle to get the rocker cover off to lock the cam.

Them the alternator cover has to come off to lock the crank.

But I have been told of a method which is quite simple....I would value your views on it.

Its form a race bike tech who has a workshop near me.

I asked about taking out the tensioner.....he has all his own contract work so cant fit me in....but said.....there is an easy way to change it.....take out the plugs....turn the motor with the rear wheel bike in gear.....till you fill it jump over to point where you feel all the valve springs in the relaxed position....get the drive chain tight to remove backlash.....lock on the rear brake.....he said the motor wont turn then when the tensioner is removed.

I will go and see him again as ask him to run that past me again in case I missed something.

What do you think.....to me it sound like it may.....I am keen to check over my tensioner.

Nick in the UK.

 

[sikatri]

I don’t know about Triumph’s tensioners, but wouldn’t a bad tensioner keep making noise continuously and not stop after three minutes?

 

[nickjaxe]

I don’t know about Triumph’s tensioners, but wouldn’t a bad tensioner keep making noise continuously and not stop after three minutes?

You would think so.....its just trying to rule another thing out.

The noise only started after the first oil change.....and that common with all the people who suffer with this tapping on cold start.

 

[sikatri]

You would think so.....its just trying to rule another thing out.

The noise only started after the first oil change.....and that common with all the people who suffer with this tapping on cold start.

So it goes away after 3 minutes and only comes back after the engine has cooled for awhile. I note this was first brought up in 2021. The bike has been ridden regularly and it always acts the same way?

 

[nickjaxe]

So it goes away after 3 minutes and only comes back after the engine has cooled for awhile. I note this was first brought up in 2021. The bike has been ridden regularly and it always acts the same way?

It does....naver altered....first heard immediately after first iol change at 500mls....now 8000mls....oil and filter changed every year.

Lot of owner contact me with the same problem.....Triumph are no help.....its so common Triumph must know.

 

[sikatri]

It does....naver altered....first heard immediately after first iol change at 500mls....now 8000mls....oil and filter changed every year.

Lot of owner contact me with the same problem.....Triumph are no help.....its so common Triumph must know.

I have a similar ticking on my 2009 MINI JCW which I bought in 2008. I’ve done work on her over the years, including replacing the timing chain tensioner and the ticking is still there, but seems to fade as the engine is warmed up. So after 16 years, I don’t really think about it very much. Not saying you should dismiss your concerns, do what you need to and see if it goes away. In the end if everything is perfectly adjusted and torqued whether it ticks or not is a bit of a moot point. What I’m trying to say is investigate, but do weight the effort and stress you want to put yourself through. It may not be worth the effort or stress. As a side note, it could be something to do with the fuel system, don’t know, but it’s something I read and recall vaguely.

 

[atomsplitter]

I'd be suspicious of it being the tensioner. The tensioner only pushes against the cam chain slipper to hold tension on the chain. Years ago I changed out my Rocket III airbox for pod filters and on my first drive down the road heard a herd of crickets from the motor's engine bay that hadn't been there before. Turned out it was valve train noise was coming thru the pods but had been masked by the snorkel and distriburtion header from the airbox. If you're hearing a ticking noise it's likely the valve train opening and closing with more gap between bucket shim to cam lobe cold that disappears when the motor is warmed up. Not saying that's 100% it, but from the descriptions I've been reading it seems a lot more likely than a cam chanin tensioner.