Restoring & Modifying 1971 OIF TR120

[NM Bonny]

So, I got most of the OEM butting removed, together with the unbelievably cruddy 'repair' that the broker did. On that front, if ever someone is poised to buy a bike from a private broker who works out of his garage in Santa Fe and whose name is Mark (or Marc?), beware... he actually slathered silicon over his ridiculous excuse for a weld before painting!

But I digress...

First image shows angle of the OEM lug, here just shoved back into its nest of welding wire and silicon. The bike was propped up at a reasonably vertical angle before his 'repair' failed--though I do not know if it was correct (see below request).

Second image shows how, as you grind (and then sand as you get closer to the frame's O.D.) the lug--after knocking back its torn edge a bit with a cold chisel--a margin appears, indicated by the arrow. The lug turns blue along this margin as it gets paper thin and heats up, before basically disintegrating as you continue around the circumference, as it's welded on at the fore and aft ends and there are no through-holes or pins welded to connect the butt to the frame tube. A pleasant surprise, as I've never done this sort of repair before.

Third image demonstrates that I'm getting closer to being able to adjust the coping of the new combo butt/lug and weld it on--after practicing on the DOM tubing that should arrive soon.

However, I think the angle needs to be a bit more obtuse to get closer to correct, so I'm shifting over to a flapper sanding wheel in the angle grinder--and then perhaps even to a Dremel sanding drum--to continue removing the butt a few more degrees around while staying away from the engine case.

What I think I'll do is remove the tank and use my engine hoist to tilt the bike at what seems like a good angle, then finalize the angle of the butt/lug and mark it and the frame for welding.

Oh - and looking at the extended angle of this kickstand in a fore-aft plane (if I don't try to adapt the OEM lever), it looks like I can definitely add a reinforcing gusset to the forward edge without interfering with deployment. I can't think of a reason not to do that, in order to essentially eliminate the butt-to-lug area as the weak link in this style of kickstand attachment. Can anyone else...?

REQUEST FOR HELP: Could someone please put their late '60s or '70s Triumph on the side stand, and help me confirm what the appropriate angle of lean is?

OR just lay a straight edge across the bottom cradle tubes and take an angle from the lug extending down and out from that plane...?

I can guesstimate but would appreciate some data if possible.

 

[NM Bonny]

Okay, good day's work (and only nearly lit my hair on fire once from the sparks before thinking to put on my welder's rag cap thingy)...

As you can see in the first photo, the new heavy duty butt/lug has a smaller pivot hole that is too close to its edge to drill out for the much larger pivot bolt on the OEM kickstand lever. Ah, well... the internal spring retention is kind of neato anyway. So, yet another good used OEM part up for sale!

Per the subsequent photos, I think this coping adjustment is about as good as I can get it with my ingenue skill set and crude tools. I've stripped away additional paint so my MIG ground clamp can make a good contact. (Have to remember to disconnect the BB ignition, fuse to the alternator, and battery...)

As you can see, rotating the butt/lug outward nearly as far as it will go while still allowing room for a bead of weld in the groove between the new part and the remaining OEM butt would put the kickstand in a reasonably tucked up position.

Now, the position of the tip can be adjusted--as well as it's length, as we've discussed--because I'll be making up a new lower end out of 1018 5/8" steel rod lying around for a once-and-future sissy bar project (for the '51 FL), which appears to match the diameter of the new kickstand coming out of the flared upper end.

AMENDMENT TO EARLIER REQUEST FOR DATA: I will not need the angle of the lug's protrusion from the frame; just the lean angle of a Bonneville from vertical or from a level surface like a garage floor. This is because I'll just affix the new part to the frame for best alignment of the retracted lever--and then simply elongate the kickstand lever's bottom end I'll make up, until it rests on the ground with the bike at [x] lean angle.

To avoid two welds in the kickstand lever, I'll use the nifty HF bar bender I got for the sissy bar project to bend the tip to provide a nice, long 'foot' that will spread pressure out on the ground, and then balance its angle on the ground against best tuck alongside the exhaust--while still being able to operate it without melting the sole of my boot.

 

[NM Bonny]

Okay, I've been out of town for several days and the steel tubing got here to practice welding, so I don't blow through my frame.

In the meantime, I am listing the front TLS front wheel, complete with new cable, spring, and hardware on the buy/sell page (if I can find it). It's actually in decent shape, bearings turn freely, no damage to rim, etc.

 

[speedrattle]

i went down to the muffler shop and traded a big bag of chocolates and a 12-pack of pepsi for a bucket of tube ends for practice when i needed to build my first exhaust system.

 

[NM Bonny]

i went down to the muffler shop and traded a big bag of chocolates and a 12-pack of pepsi for a bucket of tube ends for practice when i needed to build my first exhaust system.

That's hilarious! Now, why didn't I think of that? The guy at Route 66 Muffler here in ABQ is a motorcycle guy, too!

 

[NM Bonny]

All right, not much time to tinker today but at least I got the test DOM tubing unpacked and inspected, coped, and stripped for welding.

The only way I could think of to cope it with my stone tools and lack of experience was to use a bimetal hole saw--and I just happened to have a 1-1/4" one lying around from some project. Worked out fine. Here are some pics of the test pieces ready for practice...

I am hoping before the weekend to get time to practice--and I must say that if my admittedly scanty research is right and the OIF downtubes are indeed this wall thickness, I shouldn't have too much of a problem with this repair.

My plan is to tack the parts together, then just do small increments alternating sides to avoid overheating and burning through the steel. On the 'real world' repair, in addition to that using that method, I will use tiny looping motions that are elliptical and leave the electrode over the far thicker kickstand butt for longer than over the frame's tubing.

Oh - and I need to decide whether to reinforce the butt/lug as discussed earlier. Frankly, since it's designed for choppers with Harley big twins in them--which have no center stands and are invariably started on the side stands--I don't think it's necessary. But at least a little reinforcement would presumably net an over-engineered part that would never fail again.

 

[grandpaul]

All right, not much time to tinker today but at least I got the test DOM tubing unpacked and inspected, coped, and stripped for welding.

Very nice work.

 

[sikatri]

It’s a pleasure to follow this journey of transformation.

 

[NM Bonny]

Thank you, gentlemen, for your enthusiasm and encouragement. Harrison Ford was recently asked why he keeps working so hard with all that he's accomplished, and instead of discussing his legacy and the usual ego-centric stuff, he responded that it was the need for "essential human contact" which kept him going.

I'm a writer, so large chunks of my time are spent alone, concentrating on the once-and-future lives of my characters. But despite or perhaps because of that--and especially with the loss of my wife of 20 years--this sort of virtual motorcycle clubhouse takes on more meaning. I only wish I could afford to buy the crumbling, two-bay garage just up the highway and turn it into a vintage bike shop, clubhouse, and coffee-and-muffin stop.

But I digress...

It has been snowing for the past couple of days and too cold in the garage (for me, anyway) to hold a welding torch steady. So, it'll be Wednesday before it's 50 F. or above and I can dive into the practice pieces and then (I hope) the job itself.

My machinist suggested that I should use my propane torch to heat up the relatively massive combo lug and butt of the new kickstand to maybe ~400 F., so that I'll achieve sufficient penetration of that part without burning through the frame's much thinner DOM tubing.

He thinks that measure, together with doing small portions of bead on alternating sides, should prevent overheating and burn-through. I agree--adding only that moving the torch along in an elliptical fashion, such that the electrode lingers over the heavy lug/butt longer than the frame tube, should help offset the potential for insufficient penetration on the lug/butt.

Finally, he does not believe there is any need to add any gussets to the new piece, which he thinks is more than strong enough to support this bike--even with routine stress cycles from kick starting.

Guess we'll soon see!

 

[Rocky]

Snow, UGH!!!
Good luck with the welding

 

[sikatri]

My condolences on losing your wife, and totally understand emerging in hobbies. I would do exactly the same. Essentially after retirement, I’m doing the same, but since my wife is around I still have a “honey do” list to contend with. Again my deepest sympathies on your loss.

 

[Rocky]

I was remiss in not extending my condolences over the loss of your wife.
I lost my wife 11 years ago after 50 years of marriage, so I know how that feels.

I'm just catching up with the TV news and saw the heavy snow you got down there in NM. Wow !!
Even up here in my part of the Great White North, we rarely get that much snow these days.

 

[sikatri]

I was remiss in not extending my condolences over the loss of your wife.
I lost my wife 11 years ago after 50 years of marriage, so I know how that feels.

I'm just catching up with the TV news and saw the heavy snow you got down there in NM. Wow !!
Even up here in my part of the Great White North, we rarely get that much snow these days.

I’m lucky, been married nearly forty years and we are still together. One of us will go first, my wife thinks it will be her. Either way the survivor has the harder road. My deepest sympathies to you as well. My wife is my best friend and companion.

 

[Greyfell]

It has been snowing for the past couple of days and too cold in the garage (for me, anyway) to hold a welding torch steady. So, it'll be Wednesday before it's 50 F. or above and I can dive into the practice pieces and then (I hope) the job itself.

What is Albuquerque's approximate altitude? You get snow pretty much every year, but that is a bit much for this early in November. Do you think this will stick around very long?

 

[CarlS]

I took am remiss in not offering my condolences for your loss. That is a terrible. I know your pain.

 

[NM Bonny]

What is Albuquerque's approximate altitude? You get snow pretty much every year, but that is a bit much for this early in November. Do you think this will stick around very long?

Greyfell: Albuquerque is 5,000 ft., and where I live at the northern tip of the mountains is 6,000 ft. Snow doesn't usually last long because it's so sunny here, but like most everywhere the weather patterns have been changing, so I'm not sure what's in store for us this winter.

Everyone: none of you is remiss in my view; I probably shouldn't be sharing such intimate stuff on the internet. I guess that in this pointlessly divided country, and now rattling around my honeymoon hideaway alone in the snowy silence, I sometimes feel more acutely the absence of Ford's essential human contact. But by blurting out the most significant source of my own isolation, I did not mean to solicit sympathy; I meant only to convey my gratitude for whatever it is we're doing here, to the extent I imagined it went beyond a shared affinity for these wonderfully weird machines.

Huh... as I read what I've just written, it occurs to me that the protagonist of my first novel (a former Navy pilot and POW, whose boss barks at him early in the story that "this lone wolf, cowboy crap of yours isn't going to fly this time!") may not be merely obstinate in the face of authority, after all. Perhaps, instead, he is simply defaulting to the paradoxical common denominator of his personality: driven but thoughtful and hardly a misanthrope (like so many Americans seemingly are today), Robert Gaines may reflect even more broadly than I'd imagined our shared apprehension in the face of changes we scarcely understand and have little hope of controlling. He's like me and perhaps like all of us--both hobbled and stronger because of his wounds, and in pushing relentlessly for answers is grasping for something tangible and certain amidst the anguish and ashes swirling in the wake of a tragedy that both connects and divides us.

And if that is true, it might suggest the key to turning "A Man of Cars" (my latest screenplay-turned-novel currently in the works) into a more effective and provocative exploration of why, precisely, many of us are so powerfully drawn to the flailing mechanical symphony contained within these diminutive aluminum cases--and ironically seen as oddballs, 'that crazy uncle,' alternately hunched over his work bench and seen flying across the countryside astride a vintage motorcycle, elbows out, head down, and with an irrepressible grin spreading across his face...

 

[Rocky]

I don't think it hurts to share a bit of our personal lives - and I know you weren't looking for sympathy.
But this is a friendly forum, so it was natural for many to just be kind.
For example, CarlS and I have been members here for 15-16 years and we know a bit about our own private lives.
It's the kind of long-distance friendship that develops over the years.

You are clearly a man of words, and I enjoyed reading your message above

 

[Vector]

It’s the need to feel free. Nothing on this earth is freeing for very long. Earthly satisfactions are fleeting.
We are all designed to have an inner empty space, a pull towards the one true satisfaction.

Excellent writing NM, I’d like to read your novel.

 

[sikatri]

Sharing is part of living. No apologies necessary. In a way we are luckier than the generations before us. Technology has allowed us to find kindred souls with similar interests yet in instances very different lives. That dichotomy enriches us all. Thank you all for being here and sharing.

 

[NM Bonny]

It’s the need to feel free. Nothing on this earth is freeing for very long. Earthly satisfactions are fleeting.
We are all designed to have an inner empty space, a pull towards the one true satisfaction.

Excellent writing NM, I’d like to read your novel.

Tolstoy, especially later in his life during and after Anna Karenina, would have agreed with you wholeheartedly. See, especially, his non-fiction writing on true art and morality, which frequently took the form of critical reviews of his contemporaries.

"Lion at the Door" was put out by a small publishing house, now defunct, which my agent could only convince to do a single run of 1,000 paperbacks, all of which sold long ago (don't know if you can find a used copy online--the cover is very different: monochromatic with a lion dominating the cover). However, my late wife was then nice enough to convert it into an e-book that is available on Scamazon--where anyone can read the first 3~4 chapters for free by clicking the sample button beneath the cover. Just put the title and Joel Young in the search field and it should pop up.

If you do read it, please lemme know your thoughts in the reviews section (as well as here if you like), as I'm currently doing the stateside research to inform (at long last) the sequel people seemed to want, and I would be interested to hear your reflections on Gaines before I dive in. I'll be headed to Hanoi whenever the archival stuff is done to give me a better feel for the sensual side of young Gaines' life during and after his POW experience.

I should add that I feel Gaines' experiences as a veteran of an unpopular war, and at the vanguard of the nation's reaction to the first attack on U.S. soil in over a century, still seem sadly relevant at present. So, as art ideally should do, I am once again motivated to use him to help people process yet another difficult time in our nation's history.