Some Progress In Finding More Engine Performance

RHB

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Brooke thanks for the information. I will inquire again about the re-flash from Hilltop. Last time they said no
It was me not Brooke that passed that info. but no matter, it is a second hand word of mouth from the "other" forum which you might cross reference
time to time, if you have not already.
 

dynajohn

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I fired off another inquiry today to Hilltop concerning this. I will post when they reply.
 
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brooke

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Keep me in the loop ...BB
 

brooke

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Credit to RHB for the Hilltop info. Thanks
 
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dynajohn

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Answer came today. They say they can re-flash the3 ECU. This is interesting but there were no details, just instructions on how to send the unit. I am going to send another inquiry asking for details on what they actually change. I would also like to try and see if we can find forum members in GB or find a forum over there to see if anyone had a Hilltop re-flash and what they thought of it.
 

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As always , a man of action !!(y)
 

dynajohn

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No reply so far to my request for further details on the flash. :(
 

RHB

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No reply so far to my request for further details on the flash. :(

Well I did:
As you know their flash is different that the typical. It is stealth, undetectable or recordable by Dyno or Triumph dealer software, I asked directly what parameters they actually change. In most typical hacked ECU flashes (other brands) they change the following as needed:

radiator fan temps for better cooling, advanced timing where needed, of course fuel maps (per cylinder), gear based speed restrictions, disabling the injector fuel cut, and throttle valve actuation

What Hilltop changes is only fuel mapping and timing adjustments, which they maintain is enough to gain significant performance, and as they stated is fully adaptable to what ever changes you make to the bike except a cam or other internal mods. You would need to send them the cam specs.

I n my mind according to all I have read about their approch, it is more like a PCV addition except they code it into a blank space on the ECU directly.. and of course if true, the "autotune" or adaption feature which makes it attractive to me in the Philippines due to lack of dealers.
Mulling it over for a future expenditure, about same as a PCV but no dyno tuning necessary, and that can add up.
 

brooke

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Another man of action ! Thanks :)
 

dynajohn

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Interesting but not to me. What I need is the elimination of the throttle restriction above 7,000 RPM. I asked and got no answer. If they could only do this one change for me I would send them my ECU. I can see that this would be a attractive alternative for most Triumph owners looking for a alternative to Dynojet. What is missing is someone actually trying the product. I am not talking about installing it and making a judgment based on some ones butt dyno but an objective test. Do a SAE corrected test on the bike before and after the re-flashed ECU is installed to see if, where, and how much it changes the HP & TQ. :)(y)
 

RHB

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Interesting but not to me. What I need is the elimination of the throttle restriction above 7,000 RPM. I asked and got no answer. If they could only do this one change for me I would send them my ECU. I can see that this would be a attractive alternative for most Triumph owners looking for a alternative to Dynojet. What is missing is someone actually trying the product. I am not talking about installing it and making a judgment based on some ones butt dyno but an objective test. Do a SAE corrected test on the bike before and after the re-flashed ECU is installed to see if, where, and how much it changes the HP & TQ. :)(y)

Ive communicated with Mark of Hilltop, to his credit he answered my emails within hours, but he gave me little real info about what exactly they do.
But they are not offering a comprehensive re flash with all the parameters normally associated with it, their "modification' is fueling only and is quite controversial across multiple forums and brands of bikes.

What he told me;

1. It doesn’t matter whether other people can or cannot remap these ECUs – by thinking about open loop/closed loop and the complexities of Alpha N/TPS mapping etc. you are looking in the wrong direction entirely. Maybe they are too.
2. This is because we don’t do what other people do – they are ‘remappers’, meaning they rework OE software. We are software developers – we write our own engine management software.
3. Triumph bike ECUs are not made by Triumph, and not all of the ECU is available to Triumph.

4. Any sufficiently misunderstood/advanced tech will appear as ‘magic’ to some. There is actually nothing magic about what we do, and – like a lot of elegant solutions – it’s relatively straightforward as a concept. The hard graft bit, which took Geoff many years, was making it work in the real world.

5. We work with a number of race teams in various series, including factory supported teams, and some big name riders. Bikes running our software have won multiple championships. Contractual obligations forbid me from discussing this in any detail but plenty of people have been in our shop when some very big name machines have been in there.


So rather than divulge their secret (some say bogus) process, they have gone to great lengths to guard it, making it invisible and un measurable to dynos. The exception is if you actually take the bike to them . They will do before and after runs on their dyno and give you the charts. I have seen dyno charts for the new locked ECU Street triple. their are no gains in torque or HP at the upper end, significant gains in the lower half and a lot of smoothing, A/F ratio is rich to 3000 RPM, then levels to about 12.5- 13. that's it.
so a fuel management system only, and not measurable to the customer. Not what I originally thought. Seems I don't need it as the Street twins are running rich even after CAT removal. I'm going to wait get some new tires, and do a couple dyno runs to check my A/F, which was my big concern.
 

dynajohn

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If it is not measurable by a competent dyno tuner and only measurable on their dyno it aint there. No thanks I will stick with my tuner and DynoJet until something better comes along.:)
 
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brooke

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A man of conviction too !(y)
 

dynajohn

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The subject of Hilltop re-flashes has come up recently on the IBMW forum. As usual they are very controversial and they no longer accept ECU's for re-flash from the USA. I recently acquired a 2015 BMW K1300s and am fooling around with it in much the same way as I did with my Triumph Thruxton R. I found Bren Tuning here in the USA sells a handheld programmer for the BMW and am going to use them for ECU modifications on the BMW. :)
 

brooke

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John. Thanks for keeping us informed. Always good to hear from you. Finally got the Montone x installed. Sounds fine, don’t think it crackles and pops nearly as much as stock, but do enjoy the softening of power under 2000 rpm.It pulls a few hundred revs lower without jerking the drive train ,almost like the compression ratio is lower.Of course you never go below 5 grand but thought you would be interested. By the way for Canucks it was considerably cheaper to order the Montone direct from Wales than get a cheaper x pipe via USA and the Montone is really nice piece of work . Thanks as always. Brooke
 

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dynajohn

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Nice to know Brooke. How are you Canadians holding up under the childlike insults from our child president????
 

Rocky

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Nice to know Brooke. How are you Canadians holding up under the childlike insults from our child president????
BGRIN answering this question would open the flood gates and quickly evolve into a possibly nasty political discussion which is a no-no here, so will leave it at that.
 

brooke

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Playing golf alone,,,like the one about the golfer who blames his caddie for every bad shot. “ You must be the worst caddie in the world !” he says.And the caddie replies, “Oh no , that would be too great a coincidence.”
 

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Rocky

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brooke

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That was Noah at age 11, hole in one day. This one is my restored 250 GP serial # 004 ,only 250 made , most collectable of all Can Ams I think, now in Florida. Won an expert ice racing championship on it. Charley Grace with yours truly.
 

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