T160 Re-commission

I’m trying to follow this conversation. 25 plus turns, are the spark plug wires disconnected and fuel supply off?
 
tridents have been seizing rods due to low oil pressure for many years. the oil pathways to the crank are a design flaw,
For people who do not read other forums, @speedrattle competes in Land Speed Racing, with a twin cylinder engined Triumph. Regrettably, that recently blew up fairly spectacularly. This is not pointed up for schadenfreude but to show any engine, particularly one using plain bearings, can be seized and blown up.

The operative phrase quoted is "due to low oil pressure"; particularly in a triple engine, the "pathways" are drive and centre big ends have two oilways, the timing side big end has only one; the latter is only a "design flaw" if it is coupled with "low oil pressure". Given over 40,000 triples were produced, and not all were built with exactly the same great love and care, regrettably some had faults. However, despite @speedrattle blew up his triple, I have not had the same experience (despite owning several for several decades, they are my favourite Triumph). While I did not want to lumber @Dilkris with too much information all at once, ime the cost of an oil pressure gauge is, on balance, a wise investment.

Also, if a triple engine is dismantled, there are specialists in both the UK and the US who can drill a second oilway to the timing side big end.

remember, the oil pressure is read beteeen the pump and the filter cavity.
EDIT
@speedrattle is not remembering correctly.

The oil pressure switch is situated between pump and filter cavity.
... but nor am I. :oops:

The oil pressure switch on a triple is on the outside of the filter cavity. The filter is fed by the pump into its centre.

From the filter cavity, pressurised oil is fed to the crank centre main bearings, from there to the big ends.

So the oil pressure switch is turned off by pressurised oil through the filter already, on its way to the centre mains.

Certainly the L.P. Williams oil pressure gauge on a triple plumbs in place of one of the 1/2" AF, 5/16"UNC bolts in the front of the centre crankcase section. These bolts plug the ends of the oilways drilled during manufacturing from the outside of the centre crankcase casting to connect the centre main bearings to the oil filter cavity.

So certainly that gauge measures the pressure operating the switch.

once you turn the motor until the light goes out, you have filled up to the pressure sender and the center of the filter element
So no.

people i trust recommend 24 turns of the oil pump after an oil change with a dry filter,
The new filter element should be pre-soaked in the new engine oil.
oil-soaked new filter.
/EDIT
I know the guy that wrote it; he was a long time triple owner, racer, sponsor, engine builder and dealer. Reason I posted:-
at a later stage in your ownership, you will have the primary side apart. At that time, you will have access to the oil pump drive; if you wish, you will be able to confirm just how quickly the pump fills the unfilled part of the sealed oil filter cavity.
... is because he once showed me on an engine being built - the pump drive becomes distinctly more difficult to turn when the filter cavity is "full"; if I was not feeling that after considerably fewer than "24 turns", I would be pulling the pump to find out what was wrong with it.

i know people who remove the gallery blanking bolts from tbe cases and fill the cavity with an oil can tbrough one hole until the other drips.
Impossible certainly on a T160, unless the drive side front oilway blanking bolt has been replaced with a shorter one when the engine was out of the frame - standard length bolt's head hits the frame tube before all the thread is out of the crankcase.

the oil pressure light only tells you that you have, what, 7 psi?
The switch used 74 onwards - so in T160 and late T150 - is even lower; if the switch is original, it has the Smiths part number stamped on one or two of the hexagon flats; the "/03" at the end indicates 3 psi! :eek: In reality, it is a little higher, but nowhere near the "20-25 lb./sq. in." the workshop manual says for "Idling". :(

However, I suspect @speedrattle might have misunderstood my reference to the oil pressure warning light:-
Above advice followed, cavity sealed with the cap, kicking the engine over at most just three or four times before trying to start it will have filled the cavity, will be confirmed by the oil pressure warning light extinguishing.
... my "Above advice followed" and "confirmed" are important; i.e. if the o.p. light has not extinguished, do not attempt to start the engine ...
 
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For people who do not read other forums, @speedrattle competes in Land Speed Racing, with a twin cylinder engined Triumph. Regrettably, that recently blew up fairly spectacularly. This is not pointed up for schadenfreude but to show any engine, particularly one using plain bearings, can be seized and blown up.

The operative phrase quoted is "due to low oil pressure"; particularly in a triple engine, the "pathways" are drive and centre big ends have two oilways, the timing side big end has only one; the latter is only a "design flaw" if it is coupled with "low oil pressure". Given over 40,000 triples were produced, and not all were built with exactly the same great love and care, regrettably some had faults. However, despite @speedrattle blew up his triple, I have not had the same experience (despite owning several for several decades, they are my favourite Triumph). While I did not want to lumber @Dilkris with too much information all at once, ime the cost of an oil pressure gauge is, on balance, a wise investment.

Also, if a triple engine is dismantled, there are specialists in both the UK and the US who can drill a second oilway to the timing side big end.


@speedrattle is not remembering correctly?

The oil pressure switch is situated between pump and filter cavity. Otoh, certainly the L.P. Williams oil pressure gauge on a triple plumbs in place of one of the 1/2" AF, 5/16"UNC bolts in the front of the centre crankcase section. These bolts plug the ends of the oilways drilled to the centre main bearings during manufacture, so that is the pressure the gauge measures.







I know the guy that wrote it; he was a long time triple owner, racer, sponsor, engine builder and dealer. Reason I posted:-

... is because he once showed me on an engine being built - the pump drive becomes distinctly more difficult to turn when the filter cavity is "full"; if I was not feeling that after considerably fewer than "24 turns", I would be pulling the pump to find out what was wrong with it.


Impossible certainly on a T160, unless the drive side front oilway blanking bolt has been replaced with a shorter one when the engine was out of the frame - standard length bolt's head hits the frame tube before all the thread is out of the crankcase.


The switch used 74 onwards - so in T160 and late T150 - is even lower; if the switch is original, it has the Smiths part number stamped on one or two of the hexagon flats; the "/03" at the end indicates 3 psi! :eek: In reality, it is a little higher, but nowhere near the "20-25 lb./sq. in." the workshop manual says for "Idling". :(

However, I suspect @speedrattle might have misunderstood my reference to the oil pressure warning light:-

... my "Above advice followed" and "confirmed" are important; i.e. if the o.p. light has not extinguished, do not attempt to start the engine ...
rudie, your post is too long and complicated for me to discern completely on my phone whether i have misunderstood you or not. but there a few things i wrote that should be clarified, perhaps.

i did indeed blow up a 650cc triumph twin, at 131mph, trying to raise my previous record of 135. but there was no oil pressure issue. what happened was that one very expensive ARP rod bolt lost tension and broke somewhere north of 8000 rpm. but it was back on the track a month ago and reached 131 again before i parked it over chassis issues. im hoping to work the aerodynamics well enough to touch 140.

i use a morgo pump in that machine, with a stock OPRV and unmodified rocker arm shafts. never had an oil issue with more or less stock oil system parts.

racing is like that. if you arent occasionally exceeding the design limits of your machine, then you arent going as fast as you can. at 135mph, my own unfaired 1965 bonneville is faster than the fully faired factory bikes that ran the isle of man in 1968 and 1969, at 132. at tbe moment, its the fastest unfaired triumph bonneville that has ever been, i believe.

regarding the stock oil pressure switch, what i wrote was correct, as i wrote it. an oil pressure gauge can be put wherever you like. but when the stock oil pressure light goes out, all that you know for sure is that you have pressure to the first restriction--the inside of the filter. the lower the set point of tbe sending unit, the less you know about how far your oil has reached.

on priming the cavity by removing bolts, i cant and didnt speak to the T160.

im not worried about overburdening anybody with information. i certainly know less than very many people, and i try to talk to people who know more than me all the time. i think it does a person a disservice to dumb down a discussion to avoid the risk of oversaturating them with knowledge. i return to old discussions frequently, and learn more from them as i know more myself.

at any event, i stand by what i wrote as correct as written. my apologies if ive left something out.

cheers!
 
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there a few things i wrote that should be clarified, perhaps.
regarding the stock oil pressure switch, what i wrote was correct, as i wrote it.
Clarification - it was wholly incorrect:-
The oil pressure switch on a triple is on the outside of the filter cavity. The filter is fed by the pump into its centre.
From the filter cavity, pressurised oil is fed to the crank centre main bearings, from there to the big ends.
So the pressure switch is turned off by pressurised oil through the filter already, on its way to the centre mains.
The standard triple filter element is not and cannot be any restriction. The "first restriction" is the centre main bearings.

tridents have been seizing rods due to low oil pressure for many years. the oil pathways to the crank are a design flaw,
Clarifications:-

. Tridents and BSA Rocket Threes (same design) have been available to the public for 53 years. More than 40,000 were produced. Because not every engine and oil pump was made and assembled with the same care and diligence either originally or by subsequent owners and mechanics, some triple engines have had oil pressure problems, the problem not discovered on some of those until a catastrophic component failure. However, readers with little or no experience of triples should not infer this is a common problem or failure. Exploration of the special triple orientated internet forums and owners' club will find triples exceeding 50,000 miles between bottom end rebuilds to be commonplace, several triples that have exceeded 100,000 miles and at least one British owner who has exceeded 200,000 miles, all without any crank or connecting rod failures.

. Triples do have some "design flaws". The single oilway to the timing side big end is not one of them. Oil pressure as in the workshop manual, it performs for many tens of thousands of miles without any problems whatsoever. It is only a weakness when combined with other problems that were not part of the original design and competent engine assembly.

i use a morgo pump in that machine,
never had an oil issue with more or less stock oil system parts.
Clarification - correctly assembled, the standard triple oil pump provides better oil pressure than the best twin reciprocating pumps (triple 75-85 psi, twin 65-80 psi) while shifting around six times the volume. If desired, aftermarket triple pump increases volume by 30%.

on priming the cavity by removing bolts, i cant and didnt speak to the T160.
Note the title of the thread.

"priming the cavity by removing bolts" would be described as "mental masturbation" by a certain knowledgeable person on another internet forum for old British motorcycles ... because it cannot achieve anything a few turns with the kickstarter do not achieve in a tenth of the time.

at 135mph, my own unfaired 1965 bonneville is faster than the fully faired factory bikes that ran the isle of man in 1968 and 1969, at 132.
Clarification - any bike racing on the Isle of Man had to keep going for 188.65 miles (five laps of the 37.73-mile circuit) to finish, win or not.

i think it does a person a disservice to dumb down a discussion to avoid the risk of oversaturating them with knowledge.
Clarification - none of the correct information in this thread is new, it is all available in the T160 workshop manual and/or the specialist triple internet forums, along with much else.

If you are going to write about inventing the wheel, at least do not miss out the wheel should be round?
 
I’m trying to follow this conversation. 25 plus turns, are the spark plug wires disconnected and fuel supply off?
Sparkplugs out, fuel off - carbs are on the bench for cleaning...
 
For Rudie, Quote "Clarification - none of the correct information in this thread is new, it is all available in the T160 workshop manual and/or the specialist triple internet forums, along with much else."
Not entirely true - the workshop manual does not at any time highlight the requirement to remove the center cylinder headers in order to facilitate the removal of the sump plate and nuts - the Haynes Manual might do (but I am waiting for the one I ordered to arrive.)
 
Clarification - it was wholly incorrect:-

The standard triple filter element is not and cannot be any restriction. The "first restriction" is the centre main bearings.


Clarifications:-

. Tridents and BSA Rocket Threes (same design) have been available to the public for 53 years. More than 40,000 were produced. Because not every engine and oil pump was made and assembled with the same care and diligence either originally or by subsequent owners and mechanics, some triple engines have had oil pressure problems, the problem not discovered on some of those until a catastrophic component failure. However, readers with little or no experience of triples should not infer this is a common problem or failure. Exploration of the special triple orientated internet forums and owners' club will find triples exceeding 50,000 miles between bottom end rebuilds to be commonplace, several triples that have exceeded 100,000 miles and at least one British owner who has exceeded 200,000 miles, all without any crank or connecting rod failures.

. Triples do have some "design flaws". The single oilway to the timing side big end is not one of them. Oil pressure as in the workshop manual, it performs for many tens of thousands of miles without any problems whatsoever. It is only a weakness when combined with other problems that were not part of the original design and competent engine assembly.


Clarification - correctly assembled, the standard triple oil pump provides better oil pressure than the best twin reciprocating pumps (triple 75-85 psi, twin 65-80 psi) while shifting around six times the volume. If desired, aftermarket triple pump increases volume by 30%.


Note the title of the thread.

"priming the cavity by removing bolts" would be described as "mental masturbation" by a certain knowledgeable person on another internet forum for old British motorcycles ... because it cannot achieve anything a few turns with the kickstarter do not achieve in a tenth of the time.


Clarification - any bike racing on the Isle of Man had to keep going for 188.65 miles (five laps of the 37.73-mile circuit) to finish, win or not.


Clarification - none of the correct information in this thread is new, it is all available in the T160 workshop manual and/or the specialist triple internet forums, along with much else.

If you are going to write about inventing the wheel, at least do not miss out the wheel should be round?
rudie, i am quite comfortable with the accuracy of what i have written.

it's time to move on.

cheers!
 
I’m trying to follow this conversation. 25 plus turns, are the spark plug wires disconnected and fuel supply off?
yes, that will ensure with no ambiguity that the filter cavity is full and that any air that happened to be in it when you fitted the cap has been forced tnrough the oilways and past tbe rod bearings.

taking the plugs out will allow you to turn the motor much more easily. shutting the fuel off is a good idea in general but i dont think turning the motor slowly will generate enough manifold vacuum to pull fuel out of tbe float bowls.

making completely sure that tbe oil passages are completely full is important with these motors.

and ill repeat my recommendation to fit an oil preddure gauge. all these motors are fifty years or so distant from assembly, and you have no idea how many times the oil was changed without priming the filter cavity during that time. cheap insurance.

the triples are fantastic machines but can be killed with well-meaning but misguided maintenance.
 
For Rudie, Quote "Clarification - none of the correct information in this thread is new, it is all available in the T160 workshop manual and/or the specialist triple internet forums, along with much else."
Not entirely true - the workshop manual does not at any time highlight the requirement to remove the center cylinder headers in order to facilitate the removal of the sump plate and nuts
However, the advice/procedure is on "specialist triple internet forums" ...

- the Haynes Manual might do (but I am waiting for the one I ordered to arrive.)
Posted before ordering, I would have advised against. I have only ever found Haynes manuals useful for one bike (a Suzuki ... which says more about how useless the Suzuki manual was than anything else ...).

Many years ago, the Haynes triple manual claimed to cover the T160, but missed things like the left hand gearchange and the rear disc brake ... if they have not updated it, just reject it?

In theory, a second manual is supposed to be useful for potentially presenting information in a different way. Haynes useless, the only alternative is Clymer. In reality, 21st century's third decade, manual not clear, just look or post a question on one of the specialist internet forums.

An accompaniment to the Triumph workshop manual worth having is the TR3OC's Triple Service Notes.
 
Thankyou everyone for all you advice and input - very much appreciated.
 
not quite done. i got curious about my understanding of the plumbing of the T150 oil pressure switch, and looked through the shop manual:

fEroaff.jpg


this shows very clearly that i was wrong about the location of the oil pressure switch that controls the light.

the switch is plumbed into the filter cavity on the outside of the filter, not to a feed line to the inside as i hsd thought.

so yes, the true situation regarding the light is as rudie has maintained- initial activation of the light will occur after the filter, between the pump and the main bearing restriction.

so if the light goes out when you turn the pump, you have successfully primed the cavity and there should be no air in the system before the crank.

rudie, you were quite correct. i apologize for doubting you in this.

however, the very low oil pressure needed to turn that light off is still an issue. basically all the light tells you is that oil exists-- it says nothing about whether tbere is adequate pressure. you should have some +/- 20 psi at idle and no less than about 70 with a warmed up motor at full pressure. the light wont tell you that.
 
Very educational discussion, thanks y’all.
 
As referred in the above and shown, details of the oil flow systems - I have some more questions.
As I understand it there is a relationship between the primary drive oil bath level and the crankshaft primary drive side main bearing - in that I read that oil can flow from the sump into the primary chain case via this main bearing - and this is why there is little need to check this level, (unless following an engine rebuild). True? If so - all ok so far.
As the T160 engines are prone to "wet sumping" when allowed to stand, the proper fix for this I read is to drain the sump (which is "do-able" but still a pain) and refill the oil tank. (There are of course other permanent fixes on the market for this seemingly design flaw but - at a cost)
So my questions are:-

1. Can the sump simply be drained via the primary chain case drain plug - access is much easier.
2. Can't you just start the bike up, keeping at low idle (sub 1000 rpm) and let the scavenge pump return the surplus oil (technically it is not "surplus" of course, its just in the wrong place in the system after I assume bypassing the oil pump and or anti drain valve ), from the sump back to the oil tank?

Note: Whilst the manual refers to the "anti drain valve" I refer to, I do not see it shown on either of the attached drawings - where exactly is it? Is it accessible externally or within the engine?

Thanks everybody once again for helping me along this journey.
 

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As I understand it there is a relationship between the primary drive oil bath level and the crankshaft primary drive side main bearing - in that I read that oil can flow from the sump into the primary chain case via this main bearing
No. If oil is flowing from the "sump" to the primary through the main bearing, the engine has serious problems; because the crank rotates around the bearing, the big ends would be running through the oil at the lower end of their strokes. The engine would be experiencing serious loss of power due to the drag.

In reality:-

. There should never be much oil in the bottom of the crankcase at any time - any oil pump's scavenging capacity is always greater than its feed capacity.

. The crankcase vents primarily air through the drive side main bearing into the primary case. The primary case then acts as a plenum chamber - slowing the crankcase exhaust down - so any oil droplets can condense and fall to the bottom of the case - before (as standard) the air is vented into the carburettors air filter. Another reason there should be very little oil in the crankcase exhaust into the air filter is oil lowers the octane rating of the incoming fuel - octane lowered enough can allow pre-ignition, which damages pistons. :eek:

. At worst, if oil droplets vented from the crankcase cause the primary oil level to rise, it can only rise to a level well below the main bearing, where it overflows back into the crankcase, from where it is scavenged as normal back to the tank.

little need to check this level,
Assuming you mean the primary oil level, once you put in the initial fill, as long as the oil does not leak out, it cannot go anywhere.

Also, unlike a 360 degree parallel twin, 120 degree triple there is very little crankcase volume change as the pistons rise and fall, so there is very little air movement through the primary.

As the T160 engines are prone to "wet sumping" when allowed to stand, the proper fix for this
Regrettably, "wet sumping" is not restricted to T160's, it can happen on any Triumph or BSA triple engine. :(

The "proper fix" is to fix the standard anti drain valve.

The next best fix is to use the bike more often - before most or all of the oil has drained from the tank into the crankcase.

"anti drain valve"
do not see it shown on either of the attached drawings
T160 drawing, just above the pressure switch.

Is it accessible externally
Really only with the engine out of the frame.

Can the sump simply be drained via the primary chain case drain plug
No.

If the crankcase is so full of oil it is above the main bearing, only the oil in crankcase above the main bearing will drain through the primary. The oil below the main bearing down to the primary overflow will only drain very slowly.

start the bike up, keeping at low idle (sub 1000 rpm) and let the scavenge pump return the surplus oil
from the sump back to the oil tank?
What would lubricate the crank plain bearings while the oil was being scavenged back to the tank (bearing in mind the scavenged oil has to go through the oil cooler first)?

You can add, say, a pint of fresh oil to the tank to lubricate the engine but once it looks like the oil in the crankcase has been pumped back to the tank, you will need to drain off the added pint ...

If your bike's engine wet-sumps and you cannot use the bike often enough to keep most of the oil in the tank, I suggest draining the tank before the oil has a chance to drain into the engine. The standard oil tank drain on any Triumph is poor, either needs three hands or is messy; for some reason, the T160 is particularly bad. :mad: I replaced the standard tank drain bolt with one with a spigot, that takes a length of rubber hose, the hose can then be pointed into either an empty clean oil can (if you intend to reuse the drained oil) or into a standard waste oil container for subsequent disposal. At the end of a ride, unseal the hose, point as desired and leave it. Before going on the next ride, seal the hose and refill the tank. A lot quicker than dismantling the exhaust system.

PM me if you would like more details of this mod.
 
Rudie, many thanks for your well structured and detailed response, you clearly spent some time preparing this which I very much appreciate. Give me a couple of days to digest the content and I will revert.
 
Rudie, your detailed responses to questions like these, and many others, are exemplary.
We are all learning from them TUP TUP
 
Guess this is all for Rudie - opted to respond on the open forum as "maybe" some other T160 owners may find this of interest. I am not clever enough to "quote", " copy" and "reply" as per the structure of your response Rudie, (how do you do that...?), but hopefully the following affords some continuity.

Relationship between oil flowing between sump and primary chain case - please refer to "Main Bearing pdf" shown below. (Sorry had to attach as pdf as couldn't reduce file size via normal means). My engine only wet sumps (as I call it) when standing for a period of time - in fact after 7 days, the total content of the oil tank (3 ltrs) is in the sump. Exert from the manual attached below "Chaincase Lubrication" and the "Main Bearing pdf" seems to suggest that oil level is eventually maintained by the datum of the outer race of this main bearing. So - if I have 3 ltrs of oil in the sump, (after standing), is it not reasonable to believe that the level of oil in my now "flooded" sump will be the same as the now overfilled oil in the chain case? And if this be the case, in order to re-establish the correct oil balance can I not simply drain a quantity of oil from the chain case, (which is easily accessible), transfer to the oil tank, in order to ensure I have oil feed to the oil pump, start the engine and let the scavenge pump create again the levels of normality? (This suggestion appears sound but only if the oil level of the flooded sump, now holding 3 ltrs, exceeds the main bearing outer race datum.)

I appreciate that I am addressing the "fix" here and not the problem - the problem in all probability I believe may be a worn oil pump, (but at 9,500 indicated miles on the odometer) I would doubt this - hence the problem I believe will be the anti drain valve. I am sorry Rudie but I still cannot see the location of this as you advise - it is not identified on the oil flow schematic (the one appearing to be hand drawn) and neither on the drawing 3D schematic I posted as attachments previously. It is however mentioned in the manual, see below attachment, "Anti Drain Valve" but I don't physically see this on my T160 - is the manual showing a previous version of the T160 - T150?

Now the $1000 question, I read that some 7000 T160's were produced, how many remain I do not know, but they receive positive appraisals from classic bike "aficionados" - and no where have I read "Beware!!! don't leave them standing" - they wet sump and it is messy and a bal* ach* to put the oil back where it should be.... " So how many owners are aware of it and moreover, take them out every sunny day (and have been doing for many years) not realizing that upon initial start up there is actually no oil in the oil tanks (as it is all in the sump)...? From an empty oil tank to sufficient oil entering the oil pump to create oil pressure - how long does this actually take and moreover, during this period on low idle, is any damage really done? From memory, the British police used these bikes for some time and I just cannot see the police transferring quantities of oil around a motorbike prior to starting it and taking it out.,

Please don't shoot me down in flames - I have just been thinking about it all - and wondering how much "aggravation" at my age I actually need in my life..... :)

Finally I thankyou for your offer Rudie to PM you for further details of your oil tank drain mod - I'm presently unsure where I will go with this.
 

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Relationship between oil flowing between sump and primary chain case
Normally, oil simply does not flow between sump and primary either way.

Also normally, 120 degree triple, there is little air movement between the crankcase and the primary chaincase (and the air filter or atmosphere); generally only expansion as the engine heats up.

What usually changes that is a broken piston ring and/or badly worn bores/rings allowing combustion pressure into the crankcase. (n) Much being vented from the crankcase into the primary, much oil droplets condensing in the primary, raising the oil level there, the engine designers still did not want oil in the main bearing itself sapping the reduced power still being generated despite broken piston rings, badly worn bores/rings, etc. In "Main Bearing pdf", note the slots in the crankcase around the main bearing housing; however, not so clear there is the slot below the main bearing housing, shown better in:-

... the highest the primary oil level can reach, before overflowing into the crankcase, is that slot below the main bearing housing.

"Chaincase Lubrication"
seems to suggest that oil level is eventually maintained by the datum of the outer race of this main bearing.
I can see the reason for that interpretation of the workshop manual, but it is not correct.

if I have 3 ltrs of oil in the sump, (after standing), is it not reasonable to believe that the level of oil in my now "flooded" sump will be the same as the now overfilled oil in the chain case?
Correct.

if this be the case, in order to re-establish the correct oil balance can I not simply drain a quantity of oil from the chain case, (which is easily accessible), transfer to the oil tank, in order to ensure I have oil feed to the oil pump, start the engine and let the scavenge pump create again the levels of normality?
The operative words are "a quantity". You can only drain from the crankcase though the primary until the level in the crankcase reaches the bottom of the slot below the main bearing (you can increase this a little by putting the bike on the sidestand).

Once the oil stops draining, is that "quantity" sufficient to feed the pump until scavenged oil can replenish the tank? Bear in mind:-

. if you get it wrong, the fix is very expensive;

. the person who sized the oil cooler for BSA/Triumph is still around and posts on a couple of other internet forums; he has posted the triple pump shifts about six or seven pints a minute ...

the problem
the anti drain valve
Most likely - commonly the valve seat in the crankcase was cut poorly and/or the anti-drain valve housing was drilled slightly incorrectly, reducing the seat area for the ball. An American who posts on a couple of the triple-specialist internet forums makes a seat cutting tool that screws in place of the anti-drain valve parts; not sure if the reduced seat problem is always fixable.

However, anti-drain valve seat fixed as good as possible, do not discount the the possibility of a worn or badly-assembled pump - the latter leading to the former in 9,500 miles is not impossible. :(

anti drain valve
don't physically see this on my T160 - is the manual showing a previous version of the T160 - T150?
All triple engines have it, all have the same engine lubrication system.

This drawing:-

... shows the drive side of the crankcase and sump plate; however, what it does not show is the frame tube between these parts, the hex of the anti-drain valve and the viewer ... Engine in the frame, you have to get your head under the engine almost to the front of the sump plate, then look up and back between the sump plate and the frame tube; (n) the anti-drain valve is actually quite a small hex, on the outside of the part of the crankcase enclosing the oil pump.

it is not identified on the oil flow schematic (the one appearing to be hand drawn) and neither on the drawing 3D schematic I posted as attachments previously.
It appears in the T160 workshop manual "Engine lubrication diagram" ("Fig. A2", page A4); however, you need the actual paper manual to see it more clearly than the online manual, where it is not reproduced clearly. :(

As I posted for you earlier, the anti-drain valve is depicted just to left of the oil pressure switch depiction on that diagram. If you follow the oil route from the bottom of the oil tank into and then out of the oil pump, the diagram then shows the oil apparently taking two "V"-shaped routes between the oil pump and the oil filter. The anti-drain valve is on the point of the 'lower' "V"; however, as that is a 2D depiction of a 3D system, in 3D the anti-drain valve is not actually next to the oil pressure switch - on the rear of the crankcase oil filter cavity - the anti-drain valve is on the front of the crankcase oil pump cavity; it is only the viewing angle of the "Engine lubrication diagram" that apparently places oil pressure switch and anti-drain valve side by side.

I read that some 7000 T160's were produced,
:) IIrc, 7105 - XK00101 to CN07203 plus 00052 and AN07500.

been thinking about it all - and wondering how much "aggravation" at my age I actually need in my life..... :)
they receive positive appraisals from classic bike "aficionados" - and no where have I read "Beware!!! don't leave them standing" - they wet sump and it is messy and a bal* ach* to put the oil back where it should be.... "
Depends what you call an "aficionado", and how much space and/or time they have. Less of either, even an actual enthusiast is more likely to write/talk about the good bits than the bad bits. While the actual task of draining oil from the crankcase and putting it in the tank might be "messy and a bal* ach*", so are several others I can think of - e.g. cleaning the carbs because of ethanol in fuel. However, because these tasks are "messy and a bal* ach*", actual enthusiasts either fix each problem or find ways around it.

Any T160 is around 45 years old and has been used for anywhere between 37 and that 45 years; whether that use was much high mileage and a bike's worn out, or much sitting around in damp garages, any bike has aged, they never worked like a modern bike and they never will.

But T160's are not particularly unusual, any of their Japanese, Italian, German or American contemporaries also have foibles that have to be fixed or worked around. Having done that, a T160 is rewarding like no other British bike.

So how many owners are aware of it and moreover, take them out every sunny day (and have been doing for many years) not realizing that upon initial start up there is actually no oil in the oil tanks (as it is all in the sump)...?
How many adults would spend several thousand pounds/euros/dollars/etc. on any 40 year old vehicle without doing any pre- or post-purchase research? The few that would are simply going to waste their money wrecking their purchase? You are doing post-purchase research. :)

From an empty oil tank to sufficient oil entering the oil pump to create oil pressure - how long does this actually take
When you are watching the oil tank return for oil returning ... a very long time ... it is one of the reasons "Waking The Sleeping Beast" recommends putting oil in the crankcase of a rebuilt engine before attempting to start it ...

during this period on low idle, is any damage really done?
I do not know, never tried it. Many years ago, I paid to fix a T160 engine that suffered a collapsed oil hose; that puts me off experimenting with the lubrication system.

From memory, the British police used these bikes for some time and I just cannot see the police transferring quantities of oil around a motorbike prior to starting it and taking it out.
a) The police do not leave expensive motorcycles standing around for a week between uses; b) if they did and all the oil transferred from the the tank to the crankcase, they would consider that a fault, remedies would be tried, eventually the engine would be stripped by a mechanic, anti-drain valve and oil pump checked as a matter of course, any faults found fixed.

Afaik, British police never tried the T160; perhaps you have seen the "Cardinal" version sent mainly to Saudi Arabia? I believe Birmingham police trialled Rocket 3 soon after they were launched (Birmingham normally bought BSA) but found even them too heavy.

not clever enough to "quote", " copy" and "reply" as per the structure of your response Rudie, (how do you do that...?),
When you click on "Reply" under a post, the forum software copies the text of that post into the Message Box under "Reply to thread" at the bottom of the page. While this implementation of the software hides it from you, the text has what are called "HTML tags" at the beginning and end of the text; when the text is displayed to you, the software interprets those particular "tags" to draw a box around the text and put the poster's name above the text.

If you want to 'break into' the quoted text - say it contains two or more questions or statements to which you wish to respond separately - simply position the cursor where you want to break in and tap 'Enter'; the forum software will split the quoted text into two boxes with a blank line in between, where you can type your response.

E.g. to pick out the quote above, first I positioned the cursor to the left of "not" and tapped 'Enter', then I positioned the cursor to the right of "?)," and tapped 'Enter' again; your post now split into three boxes, I simply Cut the box above and Pasted it at the end of my post. If my previous statement looks simple, be aware it takes a little practice to find the correct start and end cursor positions to Cut (or Copy) both the displayed text and its hidden HTML tags - so it displays correctly after Paste - the underlying software is not intuitive to use; :( if you did not know it before, you will make much use of Undo (Ctrl+Z) ...
 
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