Triumph Electric Start Kit

[grandpaul]

I would think anyone with decent mechanical/engineering skills, a lathe and mill, and parts including a small FF starter with plunger type bendix, starter solenoid, ring gear, belt drive clutch with basket small enough to allow affixing ring gear to the backside, and some hardware could do the same as Bob Oswald did. Something like this Norton I have that was done by Tom Reid who did all the Kenny Dreer VR880s...

 

[Rudie]

My Ossie Oswald electric starter system battery is no larger than the standard size battery, I simply chose a more powerful battery which fit right in there. I have never had a problem starting my bike.

Battery details - type, Amp-hour rating, physical dimensions, etc.?

Afaict, what @scottholl has described so far are standard ex-Meriden parts. Meriden used the same starter motor as the the T160 (Lucas M3). A more powerful lead-acid battery the same physical size as the Lucas PUZ5A in the kickstart-only bikes was available in the early 1980's, it was the same 11 Ah as the modern Motobatt; however, Meriden fitted a physically-larger battery than that to electric-start twins.

Ossie Oswald used the same Lucas starter motor as Meriden? Did he use the timing gears to turn the engine?

I have located 2 vendors in England that sell a electric start kit that can convert A T140 To put electric start

Please post these vendors' details.

 

[Glenn]

Thank you all for your replies I hope my thread generates more crosstalk that I’m covers facts and figures about the body and the history if you will of an electric start for the bike I would love to see more responses from people Thank you all for what you have shared and I hope more will come from other interested parties thank you very much Scott

I had my '79 T140 converted to an electric start in 2011. Robert "Ozzie" Oswald did the conversion. he also switched my chain drive out to a belt drive. He machined out and converted all the parts needed for the conversion. My system actually uses a Harley Davidson Sportster starter. He went to England to sell them on his idea but the higher ups were offended that his idea was a deviation from the sprag clutch that they began using on the 1981 bikes and that the new improved starter system was a dramatic improvement over the sprag clutch system that they told him they were not interested. I guess the real reason was that they had not thought of the idea and the new improved system was developed by an American. Ozzie said that the people in the Triumph factory were very interested but when the British Hierarchy found out about it they thumbed their noises at him. I can attest to the fact that his system is a vast improvement over what they developed. Ozzie also says that had they used better parts the sprag clutch would have been less of a problem in terms of reliability. He and I have become good friends. I have been up to see him several times. He is 7 hours north of me in PA. I am in NC. My daughter lives in northern VA which is only 2 1/2 hours from him so sometimes when I go see her I drive up to see him. He is a great guy. he is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to Triumphs and Nortons. I would also like to hear feedback from the members who have used these kits. Keep this topic open with information. Thank you scottholl for getting this topic going. Stay on top of it and KI will help out anyway I can to keep it going.

 

[Glenn]

Battery details - type, Amp-hour rating, physical dimensions, etc.?

Afaict, what @scottholl has described so far are standard ex-Meriden parts. Meriden used the same starter motor as the the T160 (Lucas M3). A more powerful lead-acid battery the same physical size as the Lucas PUZ5A in the kickstart-only bikes was available in the early 1980's, it was the same 11 Ah as the modern Motobatt; however, Meriden fitted a physically-larger battery than that to electric-start twins.

Ossie Oswald used the same Lucas starter motor as Meriden? Did he use the timing gears to turn the engine?


Please post these vendors' details.

He uses a HD Sporster starter. This is an actual photo of his setup. I hope this helps.

 

[Glenn]

He uses a HD Sporster starter. View attachment 48662 This is an actual photo of his setup. I hope this helps.

Battery details: BikeMaster TruGel Battery - MG9-4B1
150 CCA.
I stopped using wet batteries a long time ago. It fit right in the battery holder.

 

[grandpaul]

He uses a HD Sporster starter. View attachment 48662 This is an actual photo of his setup. I hope this helps.

Looks almost identical to Tom Reid's Norton Commando setup, same Spyke brand starter. Tom makes an alloy cap that covers the gap over the primary case where the gear engages (I'm guessing Bob did, too)

 

[Glenn]

Looks almost identical to Tom Reid's Norton Commando setup, same Spyke brand starter. Tom makes an alloy cap that covers the gap over the primary case where the gear engages (I'm guessing Bob did, too)

Ozzie made and installed his system on many bikes for a lot of people. I would be interested in knowing who made Tom Reid's system.

 

[grandpaul]

Ozzie made and installed his system on many bikes for a lot of people. I would be interested in knowing who made Tom Reid's system.

Tom Reid made Kenny Dreer's systems. He's an ace machinist and fabricator.

 

[Glenn]

Tom Reid made Kenny Dreer's systems. He's an ace machinist and fabricator.

Ozzie made Kenny Dreer's system on his Norton. If you look at Ozzie's website there is a video of Ozzie and Kenny Dreer showing this. Ozzie told me that after he made and installed Kenny Dreer's system on his Norton Kenny never paid him.

Quiet Power Drive

 

[grandpaul]

Ozzie made Kenny Dreer's system on his Norton. If you look at Ozzie's website there is a video of Ozzie and Kenny Dreer showing this. Ozzie told me that after he made and installed Kenny Dreer's system on his Norton Kenny never paid him.

Quiet Power Drive

BUMMER!!!

A little fact that I was not privvy to.

That REALLY stinks...

I think Kenny must have gone to "Plan B" and found Tom after he dumped Ozzie.

 

[Glenn]

BUMMER!!!

A little fact that I was not privvy to.

That REALLY stinks...

I think Kenny must have gone to "Plan B" and found Tom after he dumped Ozzie.

Probably so. The fact is Kenny had all the inside information on how Ozzie's system worked as well as the ins and outs of how Ozzie machined all the parts as well as the parts he bought (like the starter) and belts, etc.

 

[scottholl]

Battery details - type, Amp-hour rating, physical dimensions, etc.?

Afaict, what @scottholl has described so far are standard ex-Meriden parts. Meriden used the same starter motor as the the T160 (Lucas M3). A more powerful lead-acid battery the same physical size as the Lucas PUZ5A in the kickstart-only bikes was available in the early 1980's, it was the same 11 Ah as the modern Motobatt; however, Meriden fitted a physically-larger battery than that to electric-start twins.

Ossie Oswald used the same Lucas starter motor as Meriden? Did he use the timing gears to turn the engine?


Please post these vendors' details.

 

[scottholl]

LENGTHY BUT FACT PACKED


- Subject:Re: klingtut has sent a question about item #171883496010, ending on Oct-06-19 02:37:29 PDT - BRAND NEW ORIGINAL TRIUMPH BONNEVILLE T140ES ELECTRIC START TIMING COVER 71-7500

It was pure happenstance that I “stumbled onto” an after market conversion for 1979 Bonneville T140E on E Bay last Xmas 2019. It was listed by Phillip as follows:

Triumph enthusiast with a fair amount of mechanical understanding then you will understand the principles involved. The kit costs £900 plus shipping. You can order the kit 00-0064 via EBay and I will invoice you for the other non ebay items. Please let me know if you want to purchase. Best regards Phil

I mentioned to you Big D in Texas, and specifically Ryan Ambrose – he has undertaken several conversions now and is very knowledgeable about the conversions to Triumph Twin Cylinder motorcycles 650/750 (particularly those models between 1963- 1984). please note; i CALLED BIG D AND TRIED TO REACH RYAN, BUT I was not able to be transferred to him as some staffer blew me off. But I was able to get a few more puzzle pieces from the staffer. He commented it cost about $ 3,00.00 and they did somethings "Proprietary"
which I assumed was trade secret knowledge.

Here is the dialog I had with Phillip to inform me that due to my bike was a 1978 T140E, I needed to order kit 00-0064.

” kbhmotorcycles15Friday

Hi Scott - We have converted a T140E to Electric starting using the Electric Start kit and a New Old Stock LUCAS Starter Motor plus Solenoid Kit & Leads. I can supply these along with the items required to convert it in the crankcase. (ie. spindle and gear with Sprag clutch bearing). The parts I cannot supply are the battery as these are best sourced locally and you will have to integrate it into the wiring loom and fit a starter switch (we used a kill button). I cannot guarantee the conversion as we have not tested it for that long, but I have no reason to believe that it will fail as the spindle for instance is nitrided and the other parts are of the original design - albeit that the design was based on 1970's technology and was even when new had some bikes requiring overhaul of the electric start due to sprag clutch failure - usually due to the timing being out and the bearing going back on itself in the gear and ruining the bearing cage....Hi Scott - no - you don't have to split the cases - you will need to strip out the timing gears to gain access to the intermediate gear spindle housing/hole. Extract the current spindle and repalce with the longer (nitrided) spindle I supply. This will then allow you to use the new intermediate gear/sprag housing which has a bush inserted to spin on the spindle. I hope this helps but if you need more info just let me know. Best regards Phil KBH Motorcycles Ltd

Best Wishes, Phil
: 01752 898683
Phil Humphrey
Totnes Classic Motorcycles (Ltd)
www.totnesclassicmotorcycles.co.uk
KBH Motorcycles (Ltd)
www.kbhmotorcycles.co.uk
Tel: 07812 809029
Tel

NEXT VENDOR

Electric Start Assy T140

Here again I am trying to reach their technical officer, but he is recovering from a bike get off.
Michael

Thanks for keeping me in the loop

Please offer my well wishes for Phil’s improving health.

I can’t wait to have my technical discussions about your exciting product

Regards

Scott
Hide original message
On Thursday, October 8, 2020, 09:12:50 AM MDT, Triumph Spares <sales@triumph-spares.co.uk> wrote:


Hello Scott

Phil (Bargh) is off work at the moment after a bike accident, hence your lack of a reply. I will keep your email for when he eventually gets back to work.

Best regards
Michael

 

[grandpaul]

LENGTHY BUT FACT PACKED...

He commented it cost about $ 3,00.00 and they did somethings "Proprietary"

$3,000 yikes

 

[scottholl]

$3,000 yikes

True and you still have to get you & your bike to Houston and back

 

[Glenn]

These systems are not cheap. Mine was worth the cost because it saved my knees. I love the convenience. Mine uses the same starter that they use on HD Sportsters.

 

[scottholl]

These systems are not cheap. Mine was worth the cost because it saved my knees. I love the convenience. Mine uses the same starter that they use on HD Sportsters.

Hey Glenn how about some more details when did you have this done how much did it cost and what is the rest of the componentry beyond a Harley Davidson starter would love to hear your reply thank you scott

 

[Glenn]

Hey Glenn how about some more details when did you have this done how much did it cost and what is the rest of the componentry beyond a Harley Davidson starter would love to hear your reply thank you scott

Hi Scottholl. Thanks for your reply. I love talking about this system. I had it done in 2011. My total system which included the starter, rear belt drive and external oil filter. Ozzie reconfigured the cover (attachment) to mount the starter gear and gear cover. He also made a bracket for the end of the starter so that it mount not move. he then fired it up to a right handlebar assembly that i bought once that came off a 1981 Triumph Bonneville. He also used a Norton dry clutch and closed off the oil weep holes to prevent oil from seeping into the case since the primary drive uses a belt as well and there is no oil needed for lubrication. The one huge obstacle was that the starter positive terminal sat right under the right side Amal MII carburetor drain screw which created a negative to positive hazard. It was so close to the bottom (probably less than an eight of an inch) that I never felt safe for fear that it would arc and short out. I put a thick piece of rubber between them but that was not a permanent fix. To solve the problem I shaved half the plug off but even then I was not satisfied. I totally solved the problem when I bought a new set of JRC carburetors which created a much larger 3/4" gap between the bottom of the carburetor and the positive terminal on the starter. These carburetors are much better than the Amal Mark II's.

Then I bought a 2008 Triumph T100 and this bike is awesome. It is my long trip bike. The 1979 T140 is my short ride, car and bike show bike. I still ride it half the time when I ride on shorter trips. It is still more fun to ride. It gets a lot of attention.

 

[Glenn]

Hi Scottholl. Thanks for your reply. I love talking about this system. I had it done in 2011. My total system which included the starter, rear belt drive and external oil filter. Ozzie reconfigured the cover (attachment) to mount the starter gear and gear cover. He also made a bracket for the end of the starter so that it mount not move. he then fired it up to a right handlebar assembly that i bought once that came off a 1981 Triumph Bonneville. He also used a Norton dry clutch and closed off the oil weep holes to prevent oil from seeping into the case since the primary drive uses a belt as well and there is no oil needed for lubrication. The one huge obstacle was that the starter positive terminal sat right under the right side Amal MII carburetor drain screw which created a negative to positive hazard. It was so close to the bottom (probably less than an eight of an inch) that I never felt safe for fear that it would arc and short out. I put a thick piece of rubber between them but that was not a permanent fix. To solve the problem I shaved half the plug off but even then I was not satisfied. I totally solved the problem when I bought a new set of JRC carburetors which created a much larger 3/4" gap between the bottom of the carburetor and the positive terminal on the starter. These carburetors are much better than the Amal Mark II's.

Then I bought a 2008 Triumph T100 and this bike is awesome. It is my long trip bike. The 1979 T140 is my short ride, car and bike show bike. I still ride it half the time when I ride on shorter trips. It is still more fun to ride. It gets a lot of attention.

Scottholl, if you would like send me your email address and I will send you 6-10 more photos of the bike.

 

[scottholl]

Scottholl, if you would like send me your email address and I will send you 6-10 more photos of the bike.

Glen did your motor have to be withdrawn from the frame to do the machining work? Does your mate Ozzie still do this work? I would very much like to see your phots. my e mail is scott.hollander@yahoo.com

many thanks in advance