Turbulence

[guscar65]

Ok, I slightly am going out on a limb on this one. I am making comment on the basis that as a long time aeromodeller I do have some insight. Its a big problem for us , it can be so bad as to rattle our helmets -----in my case one time so much that I suffered a detached retina! (now healed). Our bikes are far from aero dynamically clean, we all know and accept this ------but when whatever setup you have causes noise that you just can't put up with ------what to do?. Now it irritates me that manufacturers just don't take enough care to provide screens (and mirrors even) that do not cause excessive turbulence and hence noise. Its not that they do not have the knowledge ---they often either favour form over function or just don't give the issue enough care. a good example would be the mirrors on bonnevilles T100/120 street twin etc. They ARE in the right place for ease of use, I just need to glance to either to look behind-----but they do show a lot more of your arms/shoulders than they should. Worse they are the worst possible shape for turbulence ------and boy do they ever! . So what do we do----bar ends? hmmm they take a deliberate look away from front view --- not ideal , but they do look good. What about the rectangular ones that Triumph are selling off cheap currently ----well i did buy a set ----unfortunately they were black and NOW they are selling the chrome ones ---bugger! anyway I fitted them , yes they cure the turbulence but they are still show too much 'arm' SO next move get extenders and try again. Now the long haul screen shouldn't really work due to its rounded off shape -----but you know what it does , to a degree , to make it quieter one possible cure is to use an aero as in MRA Xscreens ------don't maybe look so good but have used one before on an America of all things ----and it was really effective. So these are my next moves Let you know how it goes.

 

[triumph david]

I have been bothered with this on just about every bike i have ever had, i an not sure there is a cure.

 

[nickjaxe]

I bought my 2020 bonnie knowing I was going to get buffeted by the airstream....I am a pilot so like you understand airflows and drag.....

Saying that the Bonnie in std setup inc mirrors is how I want my bike to be....I hanker after 60s bikes.....

So I tailor my riding speed to suit.....60mph is my max comfy speed....55mph is better....I wear an open face helmet and that lets me know when I am going fast enought....wind on my face ect.....with a tail wind I can comfortably go a bit faster.....headwind bit slower.

I bought a naked bike knowing all this and accept it as part of owning a Retro Classic Style of Bike.....the only bike I would ever contemplate owning.

I could never contemplate bar end mirrors.....so out of place....and IMHO....unsafe.

 

[guscar65]

I have been bothered with this on just about every bike i have ever had, i an not sure there is a cure.

Well in a way you are right, it goes along with bikes in general---BUT you can make a big difference to your setup, don't just give in . So if you read all the reviews (I am so sad) you will see that even bikes designed as long distance tour/adventure can suffer, but not them all so its not just a given. For example the old model Tiger sport has a dreadful reputation----the new one is good. Thats why there is such a healthy market for aftermarket screens!. Manufacturers have nowhere to hide on this ---as there has been plenty research and knowledge is available .
So, somethings that I believe happen.
IF your mount is a naked then it is likely that any turbulence is coming from your helmet alone ---there are good and bad helmets for noise.----choose carefully.
So you want or actually have a screen----what then.
Basically a screen is a flat-plate wing section which is set at a high angle of attack working at different airspeeds., as such it is difficult to have one which works at all speeds and rider heights/distance from screen. BUT hey, thats what adjustments are for , and some clever design can mitigate greatly.
The problem is caused when high pressure air hitting the screen meets low pressure air behind the screen at the edges. You will note some screens have a 'letterbox' opening to alleviate this -----but its not the cure. The real way around is to raise the whole screen some 10mm or so above the fairing to allow free flow under and around . Now if you have a screen on a cruiser etc. the problem is mostly that the shape of the screen is made to look good ----but rounded screens just make it worse as the air spills off in all directions so you get lots of small vortexs ,hence noise. You can see on some modern bikes that the screens are 'fan shaped' or have a 'channel ' up the centre -----both methods are there to guide the air in a controlled duct to keep it smooth at the centre where the rider is----so the fast smooth air just comes off the screen at one place ---that place can then be slightly 'kicked' or have an aerofoil to make the vortexes form behind or above the rider. Of course one really good way of controlling the vortex is by reducing the angle of attack (tipping the screen back, very evident if you see a side on view of an old BMW R100LT) So the air slips quickly past and the vortexs dont form until the air is past the rider. In the opposite case on real adventure bikes you can see that the fairing is almost vertical !! that I guess is to make room for the road book ---but I suppose it works because of lower speeds and the fact that the rider stands a lot of the time---in any case the vortexs will form almost directly behind the screen.
So there is a lot you can do to personalise a bike to best meet YOUR comfort ----I tried three differnet screens on my Versys before settling on an MRA X ----which then worked well . I used an MRA on my CBF 1000 and had to also raise it it make it quiet at most speeds .
I have been bothered with this on just about every bike i have ever had, i an not sure there is a cure.

 

[nickjaxe]

Well in a way you are right, it goes along with bikes in general---BUT you can make a big difference to your setup, don't just give in . So if you read all the reviews (I am so sad) you will see that even bikes designed as long distance tour/adventure can suffer, but not them all so its not just a given. For example the old model Tiger sport has a dreadful reputation----the new one is good. Thats why there is such a healthy market for aftermarket screens!. Manufacturers have nowhere to hide on this ---as there has been plenty research and knowledge is available .
So, somethings that I believe happen.
IF your mount is a naked then it is likely that any turbulence is coming from your helmet alone ---there are good and bad helmets for noise.----choose carefully.
So you want or actually have a screen----what then.
Basically a screen is a flat-plate wing section which is set at a high angle of attack working at different airspeeds., as such it is difficult to have one which works at all speeds and rider heights/distance from screen. BUT hey, thats what adjustments are for , and some clever design can mitigate greatly.
The problem is caused when high pressure air hitting the screen meets low pressure air behind the screen at the edges. You will note some screens have a 'letterbox' opening to alleviate this -----but its not the cure. The real way around is to raise the whole screen some 10mm or so above the fairing to allow free flow under and around . Now if you have a screen on a cruiser etc. the problem is mostly that the shape of the screen is made to look good ----but rounded screens just make it worse as the air spills off in all directions so you get lots of small vortexs ,hence noise. You can see on some modern bikes that the screens are 'fan shaped' or have a 'channel ' up the centre -----both methods are there to guide the air in a controlled duct to keep it smooth at the centre where the rider is----so the fast smooth air just comes off the screen at one place ---that place can then be slightly 'kicked' or have an aerofoil to make the vortexes form behind or above the rider. Of course one really good way of controlling the vortex is by reducing the angle of attack (tipping the screen back, very evident if you see a side on view of an old BMW R100LT) So the air slips quickly past and the vortexs dont form until the air is past the rider. In the opposite case on real adventure bikes you can see that the fairing is almost vertical !! that I guess is to make room for the road book ---but I suppose it works because of lower speeds and the fact that the rider stands a lot of the time---in any case the vortexs will form almost directly behind the screen.
So there is a lot you can do to personalise a bike to best meet YOUR comfort ----I tried three differnet screens on my Versys before settling on an MRA X ----which then worked well . I used an MRA on my CBF 1000 and had to also raise it it make it quiet at most speeds .
I have been bothered with this on just about every bike i have ever had, i an not sure there is a cure.

The thought of a windscreen on my stunning T100 horrifies me.

Do you ride very fast Gus.

 

[guscar65]

I bought my 2020 bonnie knowing I was going to get buffeted by the airstream....I am a pilot so like you understand airflows and drag.....

Saying that the Bonnie in std setup inc mirrors is how I want my bike to be....I hanker after 60s bikes.....

So I tailor my riding speed to suit.....60mph is my max comfy speed....55mph is better....I wear an open face helmet and that lets me know when I am going fast enought....wind on my face ect.....with a tail wind I can comfortably go a bit faster.....headwind bit slower.

I bought a naked bike knowing all this and accept it as part of owning a Retro Classic Style of Bike.....the only bike I would ever contemplate owning.

I could never contemplate bar end mirrors.....so out of place....and IMHO....unsafe.

Yes totally agree with you----the T120 screen is really good at 55 ----I have a flip-back and use it open face when in town and just mooching about----however , and it ain't very pretty when out with the boys on a day tideout ---i fit the clamp-on MRA X which really helps at 60 ish.

 

[guscar65]

The thought of a windscreen on my stunning T100 horrifies me.

Do you ride very fast Gus.

Thing is that my bike needs to meet two situations -----When my wife is fit enough we enjoy the T120 together ----its perfect, and so we never above 50. Which is why I bought it -----a better option than the America I traded .However when out with the boys , although we are not hammering around ----we try to keep 'making progress' so that's keeping on the speed limit ----ish (60) and sweeping the corners as smoothly as possible --its great .but a bit quicker than the bike design was really aimed at . It really handles well if a requiring a bit of effort in the turn. It also has acceleration that you would not expect when required (passing motorhomes lorries etc) . I also lowered the overall gearing by 5% which makes it a tad quicker and easier to ride slowly -----it also returns 66mpg day after day! i should really have two bikes and was considering a street triple as a second bike but will need to see how the money goes!. When I had the America I also had an ageing CBF1000 to do the boys thing. ---that had to go though so currently on one bike.

 

[nickjaxe]

Thing is that my bike needs to meet two situations -----When my wife is fit enough we enjoy the T120 together ----its perfect, and so we never above 50. Which is why I bought it -----a better option than the America I traded .However when out with the boys , although we are not hammering around ----we try to keep 'making progress' so that's keeping on the speed limit ----ish (60) and sweeping the corners as smoothly as possible --its great .but a bit quicker than the bike design was really aimed at . It really handles well if a requiring a bit of effort in the turn. It also has acceleration that you would not expect when required (passing motorhomes lorries etc) . I also lowered the overall gearing by 5% which makes it a tad quicker and easier to ride slowly -----it also returns 66mpg day after day! i should really have two bikes and was considering a street triple as a second bike but will need to see how the money goes!. When I had the America I also had an ageing CBF1000 to do the boys thing. ---that had to go though so currently on one bike.

I like the wind in my face.....reminds me of my open cockpit aeroplane.

Happy never to go faster than 60....so my open face and its buffeting if I go faster keeps me grounded.

I 99% of the time ride solo....so I dont have the added pressure of keeping up with the boys.

 

[guscar65]

I like the wind in my face.....reminds me of my open cockpit aeroplane.

Happy never to go faster than 60....so my open face and its buffeting if I go faster keeps me grounded.

I 99% of the time ride solo....so I dont have the added pressure of keeping up with the boys.

I guess we all have slightly differing things we want from our bikes-----wind in the face is fine , I can see the attraction but not for a whole day. Yep , I would like to have flown -----its damn expensive in UK , a few of my buds from the aeroclub have licences for gliders , powered micro-lights but they admit its very, very expensive a few have PPLs and we even have a few RAF pilots too. At least if I make a big mistake with my model ----its just a plastic bin bag! . When I say 'boys' ----we are all over 70. , its more mutual encouragement than competition , we are careful but the company is great and it does encourage you to ride well, forget to cancel a turn signal , and someone will give you the 'crocodile fingers' so reminds you to concentrate.---keep in the moment .

 

[dazco]

I'm an old guy too, and I have other guys sounding shocked when i tell them i ride up north 500 miles to see family every summer on my Tbird and average 85-90MPH almost the whole way except when the traffic gets a bit thick, and I don't have a screen. The turbulence at those speeds is pretty brutal, but i'm not some tough guy, not in the least. I think u just get used to it and once u do it's not all that bad. Just be sure to use ear plugs to protect hearing. Once i went up when the winds were really bad and i will admit that was tough. But if not for that it's really not hard to get used to it. I just don't like screens and never bothered to get one. I'm sure if i did have a screen and was used to that i would have a hard time dealing with the turbulence if i removed it for a bit till i got used to it again.

It's all about what u r used to. It's like feet forward pegs. People used to mid pegs or rear sets find it weird and uncomfortable when they try a cruiser, but if you do as i did 16 years ago when i bought my 1st cruiser ever, u get used to it. Now i feel weird riding mid pegs. But if i ever go back to them i have no doubt in a day of riding they'll be fine again.

 

[guscar65]

I'm an old guy too, and I have other guys sounding shocked when i tell them i ride up north 500 miles to see family every summer on my Tbird and average 85-90MPH almost the whole way except when the traffic gets a bit thick, and I don't have a screen. The turbulence at those speeds is pretty brutal, but i'm not some tough guy, not in the least. I think u just get used to it and once u do it's not all that bad. Just be sure to use ear plugs to protect hearing. Once i went up when the winds were really bad and i will admit that was tough. But if not for that it's really not hard to get used to it. I just don't like screens and never bothered to get one. I'm sure if i did have a screen and was used to that i would have a hard time dealing with the turbulence if i removed it for a bit till i got used to it again.

It's all about what u r used to. It's like feet forward pegs. People used to mid pegs or rear sets find it weird and uncomfortable when they try a cruiser, but if you do as i did 16 years ago when i bought my 1st cruiser ever, u get used to it. Now i feel weird riding mid pegs. But if i ever go back to them i have no doubt in a day of riding they'll be fine again.

Yes the ear plugs are , I would say essential. At first found them 'restricting'---then bought a re-suable set that don't quite have the same protection-----18db I think BUT neither do they cause you to think that you need to swallow all the time to equalise the pressure in your ear canals. They keep in a a small screw together bauble that fits on your keyring and can be cleaned with a soft cloth. I did without for a few rides ----onetime my ears were 'ringing' for hours after. My hearing is pretty much buggered anyway ---after 15 years working in a strowager telephone exchange.

 

[Rocky]

I encourage every rider to wear earplugs. The damage to your hearing is very subtle and can't be reversed.
I wear E.A.R disposable earplugs and all my jackets have extra pairs in the pockets.

 

[guscar65]

I encourage every rider to wear earplugs. The damage to your hearing is very subtle and can't be reversed.
I wear E.A.R disposable earplugs and all my jackets have extra pairs in the pockets.

You are right Rocky, the way in which my hearing was damaged was exactly that ---it was only 'medium' --but for days at a time. It took a HSE inquiry after many people reported hearing loss at more than 20 years after the event. As it happened anyone over 60 (most of us) could not make a claim since testing cannot discern between actual damage and natural loss once you hit the magic 60!. (sorry , drifted off the point there).

 

[Greyfell]

I've worked for my local telephone company for 40+ years. I'm glad only 5 years was in an electro-mechanical exchange (central office), and 20 years in a digital exchange. The last 11 years have been in the primary and backup power for the exchanges. Since coming to the power group, we are required to wear hearing protection when around equipment that produces above a certain level of noise. And, we are required to have our hearing tested every year to detect significant deterioration of our hearing. I started with a small amount of loss at some frequencies, but there has been minimal change.

 

[guscar65]

I've worked for my local telephone company for 40+ years. I'm glad only 5 years was in an electro-mechanical exchange (central office), and 20 years in a digital exchange. The last 11 years have been in the primary and backup power for the exchanges. Since coming to the power group, we are required to wear hearing protection when around equipment that produces above a certain level of noise. And, we are required to have our hearing tested every year to detect significant deterioration of our hearing. I started with a small amount of loss at some frequencies, but there has been minimal change.

Ah yes a like minded soul-----unfortunately it took a big prod from HSE to get BT to even admit that there was such a high noise level, also the guys working on jointing using 'power tones' suffered similarly, in fact it was these guys that kicked it all off. Most of my damage was done when I worked for 18 months in Scotlands busiest exchange ( Caledonian) in Edinburgh ----it was a 'director' type and even worse than the provincial 'ND type' ------it was so bad that the cleaners used to sweep up all the 'bits' that had fallen off during the night and we had to piece it all together again next day!. Hey , happy days nevertheless , hope you had a good career.

 

[Greyfell]

Hey , happy days nevertheless , hope you had a good career.

Yes, it has been a good career, overall, and I'm looking forward to retiring this summer so I can do other gainful employment that interests me, while I am still "young" enough and sharp of mind.

 

[guscar65]

Yes, it has been a good career, overall, and I'm looking forward to retiring this summer so I can do other gainful employment that interests me, while I am still "young" enough and sharp of mind.

good on you. Whatever you do ---remember the more you do the more you can do , the less you do the less you want to do. One big advantage, you can pick your ride-out day to best suit the weather etc. Its been a biggie for me , taking a full day ride-out with my friends --every week during the 'season'. There are three of us who go out regularly with another four who pitch in now and again. So usually three or four , so its a good number to keep together. Some like lone riding , and I did that , but group riding adds a whole new layer to the experience. As long as you all get on of course!. It keeps you concentrating because you don't just lay back into your soft comfort zone--you are keeping 'station' so you always need to look and think ahead of the leader' --and of course you get to share your experiences when you stop for breaks etc. Its a real blast, and it keeps you young of mind.

 

[Dinney]

I've been looking to fit a screen to my 2018 T100 but for ages couldn't make up my mind between what looked good and enhanced the style of the bike and of course, getting some protection from wind blast at anything much above 60mph. The flyscreens look cool but I doubt whether they're much good for anything else. The larger, shapeless, touring screens just look horrible to my eyes and hark back to the 50's when it was function before form.
Had to do something after getting battered by the airblast at 70mph over the weekend on a motorway (freeway) ride so I've gone for the MRA Highwayshield from Harwood Performance here in the UK. £110 with next working day delivery so not too hard on the pocket. I cut out a cardboard mock up from the dimensioned drawing on their website to test the fit and as far as I can tell, it'll look good and be tall enough to work. A light smoke grey colour with contrasting solid black band at the base. The fixings look to be well thought out and robust which some other makes seem to fall down on.
Will post some pictures if I'm happy with it!

 

[guscar65]

Please do, I have the triumph 'long haul' screen which works well up to about 60. there is surprisingly little turbulence at that point, however on recent jaunts we were riding at 65 ----not so good.

 

[Allen B.]

I'm an ear plug advocate myself, I've had hearing problems most of my life, now in my 60's and noise from turbulence becomes painful. I have many happy miles on a 1st generation Kawasaki Concours but the turbulence behind it's fairing led me to search for an unfaired bike. The Bonneville was an easy choice but the one I bought had a large windshield on it. The shield came off right away and it was smooth sailing until I got up to 50mph and my KBC helmet showed it's weakness in wind noise. Ear plugs didn't help. I switched to a HJC helmet and it was much quieter. I'm now on a quest to find the quietest helmet, it seem helmet manufacturers could care less about deafening us. I really don't believe it would matter if a helmet weighed another ounce or two.